Business Development Is Not Just Swinging a Hammer | Claire Rung, University of Minnesota #008

All right. Hi everyone. It's Karissa from Sun Control of Minnesota. We are here for our Shining Light on Minnesota in our brand new podcast room. We want to know what everybody thinks of it. It's pretty cool, pretty laid-back, but we have a super exciting special guest here, Claire Rung from the U of M. Hi, Claire. Hey, Karissa. Thanks for having me. Yeah, you bet. Thanks for coming out. So I think some of the things we want to talk about today or what we where we'll get started is let's hear about you a little bit a little bit about your backstory where you've been and where you're going. Sure. So I grew up mostly in Blaine in the north side of the Twin Cities. Um and one of my favorite experiences was being close to my granddad who would bring me down to his shop starting in middle school um and high school did furnishings all custom jobs, right? Um, so it wasn't just like a neat childhood experience I think that people don't often get, but it in a way motivates me every day for what I do, which is to help small and disadvantaged architecture, construction and engineering firms. Awesome. That's a great story. So, your granddad is he from Blaine as well? Uh, well, he's from Italy, but Blaine is where he's resided for the past 20 years or so. Fun. What part of Italy? Uh, Venice, specifically a town called Vano. It's a couple hours north, but we just say Venice, cuz nobody's going to know where the other is. Absolutely. So, you have a background in communications. Why don't you tell everybody a little bit about your background and your schooling that you've done and things like that as well? Yeah, so I have a BA in communication studies from Western Kentucky University. Um, and I intentionally kind of went general. I knew I wanted to work in some sort of heavy industry, but really wasn't sure how I would fit in. Um, at the time I was also doing debate in high school and into college and it seemed like a natural fit. Um, you know, to to give some flow from the previous little tidbit, one of the things I thought was neatest and still is about my grandpa is he just has an excellent way of talking to people, maintaining relationships. And I think that really inspired me to go beyond, well, instead of, you know, just getting a construction manager's degree or an engineering degree, right? There's a place for the marketing and business development people as well. Absolutely. So, you're doing some business development, you're doing some inclusion stuff. Tell everybody where you're at right now and where what you're doing and and in your role. Yeah. Yeah. So, I'm the supplier diversity manager uh with the University of Minnesota's office for supplier diversity. Um, and I handle all things construction architecture engineering. So, you're exactly right. About half of my job is business development, trying to bring people in or even helping them succeed beyond. Uh, and I also handle project administration. So, all of the hundreds of projects we have going on at a time, I've got a, you know, a hand in each cookie jar, so to speak. Yeah. So, for the listeners that don't know, maybe let's let's explain to them a little bit about our nitty-gritty business development that we do. Yeah. Yeah. And I have a habit of taking leaps. So, thanks for for slowing me down there. Um, business development really, we're trying to attract these small and diverse businesses to do work at the university, right? We want to support the communities we live in and that means getting business um not just to the larger firms out there right so uh you know it is the office for supplier diversity but for us that's very if you want to say like kinetic if not tactile and we are trying to bring people in so our ideas of diversity and inclusion are very direct we have a measurable result how do people if they want to get involved in the U or in the supplier diversity part of it how do they get in touch with you guys. Definitely. So, our website is really easy. It's od.n.edu. Again, osd.n.edu. There's a contact page. Uh, you can find myself, Claire, uh, or any of my colleagues on there will be able to help you in some way. And so if you have questions about our program um you know just out of curiosity or because you think hey this might be an inn for business uh we don't bite most of the time so shoot us an email sometimes but that's a you and I back and forth kind of thing. Yeah. Yep. That's right. So you have what I didn't know a while ago is a lot of times you guys kind of try to pull people in out on job sites too and get them connecting and networking. tell maybe our viewers a little bit about that and some things that they can do when they're out there doing previsits and things like that. Yeah, that's right. Um, you know, I like to put it this way. Going to see the site for a job or for a bid is not just about going to see the site for a job or a bid. Um, it's one of the few opportunities you get to um have to to interact sort of with the purchasers at the university. Um, and as many of you probably know, uh, this world nothing gets done in a vacuum. You need partners who are suppliers, who are general contractors, uh, or vice versa. So, you know, attend those meetings. Even if you're not sure you're going to bid or if we're hosting a lunchon at the U of M, come and attend. Um, you know, I think a real underpinning to all of this is trying to develop a relationship, right? in the work at a very direct. How do people that are out there find out about the lunchons or find out about the the bids? Everything like that. Is there a way for them to get on a bid board or anything like that? Yeah, absolutely. So, um in terms of procurement, every formal purchase at the university goes through a website called MBID. Uh there is a link to that site on the website I mentioned earlier. Um and I'm sure we could probably put something out this podcast with that information in it. But um we have a very streamlined procurement system. So once you're on MBID, it's not that difficult. Um just tool around in it, see what bids are being issued. I mean we buy everything from paper towels to lasers. Right. Right. Yeah. Um in terms of the lunchon, I would really encourage you to probably reach out to myself or my colleague Wing Wit Hune. She's our business development manager. Um, so you can kind of get a sense of what are you looking for? Uh, what is your business or trade about and then sort of select the opportunities that are appropriate for you. Outstanding. Wing is amazing. I see her all the time too. I mean, between I think you and I and Wing, we have a lot of the associations and a lot of the business development networking events covered. Yeah, that's exactly it. And for those of you who don't know, that's how Karissa and I met is through the Association of Women Contractors. So, we're also present and we like to bring our partners to these little industry networking events as well. And for two people, I would say we're pretty mighty. We're not the only people in our office, but we seem to be everywhere. At least that's what people tell us. Yeah. They also say, you know, they can't flow you if they don't know you. And I think people know us. like whether whether you're out on the street. I know we've had those conversations of seeing people at the events and then seeing them in person and they start talking to you and you got to kind of click and figure out who they are or where they're at. Yes. Yep. I I often like to joke if I read it once, I'll probably remember it the rest of my life. But I can have a conversation with somebody about three times before it really clicks. So I just ask if you meet me, you know, be be patient with me. But you did key on to something important there, which is like, okay, it's construction. It's safety driven. There's low profit margins, yada yada, but everything is about the relationship. If somebody doesn't know you, uh, trust you to pick up the phone, know what you're about, have had conversations with you, it's really difficult to put any amount of money under your plate, right? They need to to be sure you're going to do the job. And a lot of that comes back to just connecting with people and being present. Yeah. I mean, and it all starts with planting the seeds, right? So, you're out there never knowing with what's going to work, what's not going to work. But on the same hand, it's it's exciting to know that, you know, the more people that start to know you, maybe not now, but in the future, That's right. they're going to need you or need your business or your services. So, it's it's always important to be omniresent. That's right. And I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir here, but um you know, a lot of this happens in large time scales. So just connecting with somebody for, you know, a couple minutes, an hour, maybe you won't do business with them for another year or two, but it was that initial meeting that might really make the difference, right? Yeah, for sure. And I know that people say, I mean, I've heard him say about you, I've heard him say about Wing, about, you know, other people, too, is sometimes it's not always about the business. It's when you come into people's lives at the right time or there's things that are meant to be and just making a difference. You know, trying to let people know that, hey, I'm here. This is what I'm doing. I can mentor, I can help, but most importantly, I'm getting to know you as a person. Yeah, that's exactly right. I don't think anybody really wants to do business at a place where, you know, you have no idea who you're talking to the entire time and you're just reading schematics and and bit documents and designs. I mean, I think that good institutions are governed by rules, but at the same time, it's really hard to push that forward without good people. So since you started at the U and where you guys are today, how much has your role changed? Uh definitely. Um so our office was restructured about a year before I joined on and I'm in my second year here. So it went from a one person, two person team that was doing everything from supplier diversity to economic development to now uh five people all in in supplier diversity with a little bit of that economic development component. So, you know, when I joined this job, I was really all just project administration. Get your reports to me, go to bid meetings, etc., etc. But, um, you know, the more I learn the lessons, most of which we just talked about, the more it becomes critical that as I'm more efficient in doing that and I have extra time, well, let's go do a podcast with Karissa, right? Random, but yes, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, and the podcast is kind of the same thing for us. It's all about, you know, making connections, helping people get out there and say, "Hey, you know, the U is here and these are the ways to get in touch with them and, you know, how can we help you succeed? How can we help other people get in touch with you and just keep growing?" Yeah, that's absolutely right. And I mean, we are often the the front line of contact, you know, Wing and myself and our partners in the office for people who want to do business at the U. And, you know, we don't just limit ourselves to talking with small and disadvantaged business. Again, this is a whole ecosystem. So, even if you're not sure you fall in that bucket, but you want to do procurement at the U and you support a diverse business community, there's absolutely a conversation to be had. Absolutely. So, with everything that you guys are doing, where do you think that you're going to keep growing or where do you think you're going to end up in the future? Any thoughts? Yeah. Well, uh I won't give too much away, but I have to say I I really love business development. I think the more and more I found myself in that kind of role where, you know, it's go to a networking event or take a lunch with somebody, develop a relationship, and then get out of the way while the technicals get executed afterwards. That's really where I thrive. You know, project administration is great, and obviously our numbers are important, but like I said, going back to just watching my granddad be an ace with people, I definitely take after him in that way. He sounds like an amazing person. And it people don't understand in the business development world, it's just not a 9 to5. It's the mornings, it's the weekends, it's the nights, it's anytime there's an event or trade show or a home show or anything, you go. You never know where that where that person you're going to meet is coming from or where they've seen you or how many times they've seen you. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I'm I'm I get the sense you're probably the same way. But I think it's a it's a type of job, even if it's not in our industry, so to speak, that really does attract people who aren't just trying to, you know, get a paycheck or or push the clock, right? It takes, I think, a degree of really caring about your industry. And especially for us in in construction, architecture, engineering, and then economic development, making our communities better. So, you know, for me, that extra hour or two or whatever it is is is hardly a cost cuz that's what it takes to get done. Yes. Absolutely. And in those couple hours too, people don't realize that that's what's going to make you stand out, make you go above and beyond, and what's going to make those communities and economies flow? Yeah, that's absolutely right. Yes. So, we've seen you at a lot of events. What events do you have coming up? Or where can people see you when you're out and about? Definitely. So, uh, we have the Minnesota Minority Goods and Services Association. Don't quote me on this. I want to say the 17th of April, uh, new member mixer. Um, and the office for supplier diversity will be a big component of that. Um, you know, as you know, we attend the monthly meetings for the National Association of Minority Contractors, the Association of Women Contractors. Um, and as well, I'm I'm very involved with the Economic Development Association in Minnesota. So, those are kind of our headlines, but with us being everywhere, we find a new event each week to go to. Y Do you like going to the ones back home, like in the Blaine area? Do you go to many over there? Yeah, it's it's really exciting to see. I mean, I think uh you know, we had a firm just recently host one MC Tool and Safety up in Blaine. And it was just fantastic not to not not just to like interact with a business that was like down the street from where we grew up, but um every time I come back, it's um an opportunity to see just how much Blaine specifically is growing. And that, you know, to me, while the university doesn't really touch Blaine, so to speak, it's it's the exact reason that I do the job. You know, it was it was a great place to grow up, but now it's it's beyond thriving. Yep. Have you seen any of the prints for the National uh entertainment center that's going to be coming out in the future? Yes. It's going to be amazing. It's super exciting. I think there's an athletes village planned, an amphitheater planned. And I think that really will bridge the gap between just, you know, the the industry and the sports stuff up 65 and all of the residential communities and kind of creating common places for everybody to mingle. That's not just at a restaurant table or on sports bleachers proper. Right. Yeah. So, we're going to kind of scale back a little bit. When you went to get your degree for communications, did you ever think you'd be in the role that you are today? Were you kind of hoping for that or did you not really have an idea? I think it was probably a little more subconscious. Um, you know, I got the sense I would probably was going to be one of those people who ended up in in a family business, whether literally at my granddad's shop, which, you know, he sold off, or doing the kind of trades that I watched my parents and grandparents do. um you know outside of a few people in my family I was really more or less a first generation college student so I was just thrilled to be there communa communication seemed like a good fit and to be honest my plan was just get my degree find a place to post up and you know a good a good job will come to me if I look hard enough did you get the U job right out of Kentucky or did you what brought you back? Uh, no. So, what brought me back? Um, you know, Minnesota is just an awesome place. I've been to, I think, 35 states at this point, and there's nothing like the balance of like that small community feel, but also having a a city that's, you know, starting to rival, if not get beyond places like Kansas City or other places in the Midwest. So, you know, I think there were a thousand draws to come back home. I didn't start at the um out of school. I actually worked for two and a half years as a supervisor at UPS and tractor trailer. So yeah, at the time I was like consider myself a logistics and a supply chain manager and that's kind of what brought me to the U of M. And then um being uh tasked with that construction architecture engineering portfolio sort of I think uh await awakened that subconscious part of my brain that says work build stuff work with people who build stuff. I think what people don't understand is a lot of times, I mean, obviously college life has changed a lot for kids these days now and before, but they never know what they're going to do when they get out of school. They might go to school for one thing, they might change their degree or nowadays going into the trades, trying to find something where you can work right away is just as important. Probably not preaching to the choir, but just as important as you want to you want to figure out where you're going and what you're doing. Oh, 100%. Um, you know, I think I read something that really encouraged me around the time I was at university, which is in today's world, which that was back in the 2010s. It's more than likely you'll have two, if not three careers over the span of your working life. Whereas, I mean, for my parents and especially my grandparents, it was you you get one job once you're out in the world and that's what you work in and that's what you are. And um you know I think there can kind of be an element of of overwhelmingness with like so much opportunity out in front of you. But that's okay. Try out you know things that interest you and if it doesn't work out. It it's not like it was 40 years ago. There will be another career opportunity down the line and there are so many people out there who are willing to entertain that even if that wasn't your formal education or your first experience. Right. You definitely have room to reinvent yourself too. So a lot of times what you're going to and what you're doing isn't what going to be where you end up. You never know where you'll be 5 years from now, 2 years from now, or even tomorrow. So it's kind of like every day is a new day. Um with the you and with everything you have going on, what are some of the challenging positions and things that you've had to deal with? Yeah. Yeah. So I think challenges are for the most part always good, but I I alluded to this earlier. The university is a large place, right? And our office, the office for supplier diversity, we touch every campus, every research outreach center. So, um, well, I love it. My world is definitely a a world of, you know, spinning plates and falling force, right? Yep. But that's okay. I mean, the more that you learn to deal with volume, right, um, will force you to learn to prioritize. And you know, my logic is if I can handle, you know, 150 to 300 projects at a time, whatever comes next is not going to be nearly as hard, right? And it kind of helps the es and flows. I mean, there's going to be times that'll be obstacles that you're going to be learning from, and then there's going to be times that'll be, okay, I'm waiting. What's next? You know, just kind of the stalling like what what's going to happen? So, yep, that's right. It's exciting to me. Um so how many for the listeners that don't know and they think the U of M they just think here in the Twin Cities how many other branches are there? Yeah. So, um, in the eastern part of the state, of course, uh, we have Duth and Rochester as primary campuses. Um, they're both urban. Duth is much more built out than Rochester. Um, and we also have Krookton and Morris in the western part of the state. Um, and in addition to that, we do have a research outreach center in every county in Minnesota. I think 87. Yep. That's right. So, that throws a little curveball at at it when someone says, "Hey, this is this is where I need to be." Yes. That's right. That's right. I just as often will find myself, you know, going 10 minutes down the street for an academic building as I will, you know, driving out to Wilmer for the poultry facility, right? Absolutely. Yeah. Yep. So, how much traveling do you do and your day-to-day and what is business development? How far out does that take you? Yeah, travel is constant. I mean, I'm getting great use out of my vehicle. Um, but I do kind of like that variety, right? Um, people ask me all the time, are you in office or you work from home? And I'm like, I'm everything. I'm somewhere. Yeah, exactly. I'm somewhere new every single day and for this job proper, it's brought me as far out as, you know, Chicago in order to try to bring firms in that we might not have here in the cities. Um, and as well just to kind of get a sense of what are our public partners in other states doing? Absolutely. How do you see that Minnesota relates to other states in the supplier inclusion diversity areas? Well, I'm probably biased here, but I think we do great. Um what I really appreciate about the U and I think a lot of public entities in Minnesota is that there is a very excellent balance between you know obviously there's an imperative to get work for small and disadvantaged businesses and you know that does require uh requirements in the contract right but on the other hand I don't think there is a single person I've interacted with at the U or you know with any of our public partners that doesn't realize you have to build relationships with people and they have to be authentic, right? And so many times when I hear complaints about, you know, other states for whatever victories they have, it's usually because one or the other is lacking, right? Hey, we have a ton of people to talk to, but when it comes down to like making the rubber meet the road, there's no traction or vice versa. You know, hey, we have all these great myriad programs, but you know, it's we're shooting in the dark in terms of trying to find an actual human to talk to, right? And it gets to be hard. I mean, in in your world, I'm sure, for sure, or any any role similar to that of cutting yourself too thin. It's like you want to be in so many places and touch so many people and talk to so many people and spread the word, but you also have to have those in-depth conversations. That's right. I mean, uh, it gets back to that nugget about prioritization. Um, you know, some people are more intuitive. I probably count myself in that group. Some people are more data driven. But regardless of how you measure, I mean, you have to have a good sense of where am I going to spend my time today and what impact is that going to have, not just on the university, but the businesses I work with. So, you learn very quickly. Uh, you would love to have a breakfast, lunch, and dinner with with um, you know, three different businesses per day, but that that's just not realistic. No. And you could have that planned for one day, and guess what? It's none of them are going to happen. Oh, yeah. What did I do? Show up two hours late to this? Sometimes it happens. It happens. There's fires to put on. I think that's what makes our role, your role, my role, being flexible. Like, you just go with the flow and whatever happens happens. You have to pivot. And I I this is a total sidebar really, but I saw something that was super fascinating. Maybe I'll chalk this up to my own experience, but um you know, people my age grew up at the advent of like video games being mass popular. And there's studies out there that say people who got really into video games are great at pivoting and work, right? Some people have a really hard time going from, you know, banging out a spreadsheet for for an hour for an hour and then going to like a lunch where you have to, you know, put on not not an act, but like you have to get back into that personal element. So I thanks I'll attribute it to Call of Duty. I don't know. But you do have to be good at pivoting, right? Yes. Absolutely. And that's what the role 90% of the time is. I mean, you could be at a trade show for 6 hours and you could have that one person come through and just want to sit there and have a conversation and it's like, "All right, let's do this." You know, it's it's important to them. They want to connect. They want to let you know where they're at, what they're doing, and yeah, you just don't know where that's going to go or grow into. That's exactly it. It's super exciting to have you here in our our brand new room. It's gorgeous. I love it. It's warm. It's inviting. Yes. So, what do you think is next for you in regards to you in your diversity supplier inclusion? Is there anything coming in the works? Something new that people don't know about? Probably nothing I could advertise at the moment. Um, we really did because of the stellar additions to our team in the past year. Um, kind of execute that strategic work plan, get in place who's doing what, building out programs. But I would say the main thing to keep your eye on is, you know, as our office expands its reach um throughout our system, expect more lunchons um not just in the Twin Cities, but I don't know, maybe Krookton will be next, right? Hint hint. Wink wink, right? Yep. See where the where the car takes me next. Yeah. Then that's really what we kind of think about. I will say I I in terms of the technical elements of our program, what goes into an RFP, you know, request or proposal, we're we're in a good place, right? We think we are. Um, but there's always something to do in terms of uh being able to meet people, right? So, yeah, next trade show you go to, if you haven't seen us there before, shoot us an email or you might just see us there anyway. But we're getting out there. Or if you're not there, you'll be at our event. You're coming to our event. That's super expo. Yes. On April 25th from 3:00 to 7:00 at our Rice Street location. It'll be super exciting. We've got a lot of GC's, a lot of schools. We're really just trying to help our network, everybody's network. Yeah, I think that's fantastic. I mean, it's really easy for the the quote unquote the buyer, right? the government entity in this case, um, you know, or an industrial partner or or just an industry organization to put on a trade show or an expo, but to have, you know, just a straight up private sector firm like yours say, "This is our network. This is who we're with. Come see what's going on." Right? That really cuts at the lesson there. Like all of us have something to teach. Um, and this this industry is so driven by again not just relationships, right? developing a community, right? Um, you know, we're not all competitors all the time, right? No. Right. And it's fun to have something a little more laid-back, but when sectors or different businesses or different people have a product for everybody like we have, we can't just seclude it and say, "Okay, we're going to do it with just this specific association because we have something for everybody." So all the GCs, all the subcontractors, schools, anybody that are not just GC's and subs, but associates, we'd love to have you out. Absolutely. And you'll see me there if you want to, you know, establish that relationship in person. I'll I'll be up there. And my partner, Wing Wit Hune, will be up at the Minnesota Tribal Contractors Council annual spring dinner in Proctor. Yep. That's exciting. That's a good one. If you have a big team, maybe you'll see us in both places. Yeah. You never know. I mean, you are everywhere. Amazing, super awesome. You're going to make my head pop if you keep inflating my ego. Well, it's hard. It's It's one of those things that people don't realize, but like everywhere I go, I'm like, "Oh, there's Claire." Oh, hi, Claire. Yep. That's right. That's right. If you're everywhere, you know, you're just I like to think that um the more the more you're out, the more it'll come to you, right? The more present you are. It's not just about people trusting you or being like, "Oh, that's a person I should talk to." It's just you appear what you are, a stakeholder in the industry. Yep. And being omniresent. I mean, you guys are not just seen, but you're heard and you have you have the you behind you, but it's also that personal tactic and like you were saying goes back to your granddad and just making those personal relationships happen. I think that's important. That's right. So, for students upcoming at the U, what do you think are some of their challenges and what do you think will help overcome those? Yeah. So, you know, CO was obviously a big disruptor to I mean the global economy and so many levels of our society. Um, but I just try to think about it this way. You know, we're in that generation of college student where their entire schooling experience from the nth grade may have been mostly virtual. That's new, right? So, you know, it's not just the students trying to figure out, okay, you know, dorm life might be a bigger hop even if you're from the cities. It's also um us even on the auxiliary side which is mayor of my office is figuring out okay how do we reconfigure our space for a hybrid attendance world or for our academic uh professionals how do we adjust learning strategies for people who had a wildly different experience than you know even the last generation of college students so I think it's just trying to understand that you know young people in their formative years especially this has and you know a third a fourth of their life right at a time when they're coming of age. So just trying to understand that that's going to be the whole world for people that age and you know trying to if not restructure just make adjustments in what we do not just how we teach but again how we use our space as a task that all of us have a role to play. For sure. I think that also helping them transition into the work life balance. Yes. And there are businesses obviously that will let you do the hybrid, some want you back, some will let you work from home, but trying to find that happy medium and where where they're going to fit is important, too. That's right. It kind of goes back to what we were talking about with um, you know, having maybe a couple career choices in front of you instead of just one where, you know, you might go do a remote job and you think that's what works for you and you end up just hating it because you want to be in person with people or vice versa. So, you know, in a kind of a direct way to that point, try it out. See what works for you. There will be room to adjust. And there are lots of people out there who want to help you succeed regardless of whether you're working from home or uh at the office or you're just in a new place every day like you and I, right? Living out of our car basically. I get it. We're probably the only people who nothing changed for us, right? No. Right. Yep. I'm in my car and by myself. We're good. I might be going to different events or they might be Zoom calls, but I'm still got non-stop events every single day. Yep, that's right. It's good to stay busy. Absolutely. I think my calendar is booked out. I think it's funny when people are like, "Weren't you just in Mano and then you were in Lacrosse and now you're Yep. Let's Let's do it. Let's go. That's exactly it. Willing to travel." Yes, that's a big one. So, how far I know you said you were in Chicago. Do you guys go to other states other than just Chicago or do you stay more in the Midwest to try to pull everything in? You know, for me and the uh role that's focusing on construction, architects and engineers, it really is Midwest driven, right? So, I think Wisconsin and Illinois are the big ones for me. Um, which isn't to say we won't get out else-wise, but you know, my partner Wing, she is like truly everywhere. I think she was in Denver last week. She'll be in Denver again. I think we've got Baltimore on the docket once more. It's like how many places can you fly while I'm driving and we'll just get them all covered. That's right. That's right. I mean, how often do her and I have like one of our Zoom calls and we're both in some basement conference room at a building we've never been before in some city we've never been to before. Right. And it's even more important when like you walk in somewhere and you're both in the same room. It's like, wait, what? This doesn't ever happen or it doesn't happen too often. Yes. Yes. That's absolutely true. Yeah. So you have you, you have Blaine, where else have you traveled and where all have you gone? Sure. Um I think probably the one I will talk the most about just and this has nothing to do with my current job is when I was uh going to school in Kentucky, I had a and this is before co I had a remote role um to teach high school students debate uh with a school in New Jersey and that uh kind of eventually morphed into a travel remote role. So, you know, I've been I've been all over the US at this point, not the whole thing, but um I'm probably one of those people who will sit there and stand all day. Um you know, people like to make complaints, but I I'm not really here for it. I'm one of those people who's like, "Yep, Jersey pizza is just better than New York pizza. Jersey bagels are better." That makes people really angry to hear. Um but if you haven't been, New Jersey is is actually for for a small state a really diverse place. I mean, you are in some places a stones throw from New York City and in other places you're in the Pine Barons, which uh you know, are virtually unchanged for tens if not hundreds of millions of years. Um, and considering it's um, you know, history, not just with the United States proper and beyond, um, it's a it's a super neat place. If you if you thought you were going to bash Jersey, go there and try it again. Yep. Just take take a second trip or go see the back road. see that go to the places that you're not sure how they're going to be cuz that's where you're going to get the the home-cooked and the good good stuff. That's exactly right. And that's I mean, of course, all of my fellow Italians in New Jersey, you know, I just had a a call with a friend who I worked with this weekend and I'm like, man, can you mail me some of your mom's pasta visual? Like, none of us can get it that good here, right? What's your favorite Italian food? Oh, um, pepperonada. Yeah. Um, so for those of you who don't know, it's usually um kind of like a broth, not quite a stew, not quite a soup, but really is um pepper and onion centric. And then from there, I mean, people do it with sausage, people would do it with shredded chicken. It's kind of one of those dishes that can like turn into anything if you want it to. It's like a Minnesota hot dish where you just kind of keep adding stuff in. And Yep. And for as much of a foodie as I am, like um the the little axiom about like, oh, Italian home cooks are good and you'll never be able to replicate the recipe. Oh, that's true. I've been trying to copy my granddad's uh pasta visual for or I'm sorry, pepperonata for for 20 years, and I I never even get close to that. Not even close. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe there's like a little magic I'm not seeing happening, but the little extra extra love put into it for sure. Yep. Yep. So, pepper and and I like that you compared it to what was it? The Minnesota hot dish, right? Yep. That's it. Well, you know, there's there's something like that that every culture has, and I find those are kind of the dishes people gravitate to. Yeah. So, you talked about helping in schools a lot. Do you guys or do you ever do any mentoring where you help out other people in that are in the same roles as you or going to any schools or anything like that to try to kind of help them get more diverse or anything like that? You know, I wouldn't say we necessarily like have a formal program for that, but I do kind of um you know, business development isn't really an abused term. Sometimes it is. Nobody knows everything that we do. Is it marketing? Is it what is it? Um, but we do kind of um put that under the bucket where, you know, I would say just as often as I might take a meeting with a larger general contractor, I might have, you know, a lunch with somebody from the city of St. Paul and we can just kind of compare notes. So, uh, you know, we also do professional development, right? Wing and I are out there expanding our own knowledge base and we get to interact with professionals like us. So um you know for anybody who's listening where you you fall in that bucket we are just as happy to take a lunch with you and maybe it's just we establish a relationship and compare notes for a day and other times I mean there are people like uh you know I'll give him a shout out John Oalen is a workforce and equity uh manager at Ramsey County and like he is my workforce guy anytime I have a question that I can't get answered at the U you know I go to John and that is because I don't even know how we met probably a career fair at the career fair the or industry event and all of a sudden it's just like oh you're doing the same thing and I'm just starting this role yeah let's go grab coffee see what's going on and you know that that's how some of our most fruitful relationships have developed absolutely I mean he's great to work with I've worked with him a lot and I've seen him at a lot of the career fairs and a lot of the procurement yeah events that are out there um Charel Hill is amazing too um Barb Law has a lot of knowledge from AWC Shout out to Barb. Yep. She's she's amazing. We could go on naming everybody's names at all the different associations. Um what do you see growing wise as far as associations? Do you guys plan to do more? Are you kind of staying in the ones that you're in? You know, I think we have our core group. Um and it really makes sense because like a lot of the boxes are checked whether it's just like the actual procurement opportunities or just networking. But I mean we we and especially myself, we'll try anything once. Y if there's a group that you think I should be involved in speaking to the viewers here shoot me an email. Let me know what's going on. I'll I'll show up. Scope it out. You know, it doesn't necessarily mean it would become part of our our regular repertoire, but um you know, if we've got the time and you trust us to be in the room and contribute, we'll show up. Yeah. And a lot of times you never know what's going to be a right fit for you. Like that's why a lot of us do so many different associations. Yes. You just never know. That's exactly it. Then on top of all this, you know, it's like being in then you start to talk about at the individual level like being involved in committees, right, with these organizations and there's a whole another component to that. So I mean that's that's I guess to take a moment to really give people advice which is like you know I think from the outside looking in there can be a a perception with like construction or even my past world of trucking like oh it's unfriendly and everything's this or the other way. I'm like no no it's such a diverse world out there. There's so many fascinating people to meet and as you kind of mentioned, I mean, I can't even count on my hand the number of people who, you know, I would call up just to get a lunch with them to to catch up and not even chat business because we just really connect and it's a beautiful part of um maybe it's a Minnesota thing, maybe it's because so much of this like touches the larger field of economic development, but it's it's so communitydriven, right? And a lot of times when it's tough, I mean, I've gone to a lot of different networking events, things like that at colleges, things. When people think construction, they still kind of are that harrowed mind of I'm going to be up there with a hammer. I'm going to be doing this. No, there's the law side, there's the HR side, there's the networking side, there's so many different assets to it that not a lot of our viewers even know about. They just think the straightup construction with the framing, the carpentry, everything like that. Yeah. Yeah. And and even then, I mean, I kind of think beyond I agree with all that and almost think beyond it where it's like we're all people. All of us want to live long happy lives filled with peace and safely. Yeah. Safely. Uh you you would just be shocked by the people you will connect with that you might have thought, "Oh, I wouldn't like them because they worked in this industry." You know, I'll give a shout out to my former employer, UPS. I mean to talk about truckers who are just an absolute direct delight to be around. Uh that was probably one of my favorite parts of the jobs. There are lots of big personalities that go into that. Um they're people that care about their work and ultimately in the same way that building buildings, you know, puts a roof over our head. All of us get packages shipped to us. So, you know, just think about it that way. There is always a way to connect with these people even if they are you know the framer, the concrete porter or you know the standpiper whatever whether it's I mean it's matching personalities too. I think that's a lot of it. You come into something and there's someone that's hardnosed and just trying to get the job done. Just ask questions why you're doing what you're doing. Be interested learn about what they're doing and start kind of building that relationship. Yeah. Absolutely. Yes. Well, we really appreciate having you out today. What again? Where can people find you? How can they get a hold of you? Right on. So again, we are at odd.n.edu. osd.n.edu. Um, if you go to the contact us page, you will find my email, my office number on there, um, as well as all of my counterparts in that office. And I I'm pretty quick on the draw. So you shoot me an email, you'll probably get a response the same day. Yep. Otherwise, yeah, keep a lookout for us at anything that especially me, you know, contractor related, construction related. I mean, we we hit it all. Everything from Minnesota Tribal Contractors Council to just the Associated General Contractors of Minnesota. Absolutely. Come to our event and they can meet you there. Hey, I like that. That's a good one. Um, and I will say now now that I'm thinking of it, um, the Small and Disadvantaged Business Opportunities Council has a uh, trade fair on April 11th. I believe it's at the Earl Brown Heritage Center in Brooklyn Park. Um, the OSD will have a booth. It sounds like you'll have a booth there. Um, and I think that's probably closer to like what I would say is a as a flagship or capstone event during the year where everybody who's out here doing this, they're they're going to be at that event. They're going to be there. Henipin County has one coming up, too. I mean, there's just a lot of places. Yep. And AWC, but outstanding. Well, we really appreciate having you here today. Glad you could take a look at the new new fun room that we did. And I love it. I'll be waiting for the Billy Bass up on the wall for the next time. It'll be here. Very good. Very good. Or Danny the deer or something like that. Yeah. Well, thanks for having me, Chris. Thank you so much. Bye-bye.