Inside the Glass Industry at White Bear Glass | Jeff Meyer, White Bear Glass #045

Hello everyone. I'm Karissa Dunham with Shining Light on Minnesota. We have a fabulous guest here with us today, Jeff Meyer. Welcome, Jeff. Thanks for having me. You bet. So, let's tell everybody a little bit about White Bear Glass and then we'll dig into the pioneer technology. Perfect. Um, I was lucky enough to start in the glass industry right out of high school. So, 1984, it's a long time ago. Um, my uncle owned White Bear Glass, Jerry Griffith. So, I worked there for a number of years um till the early 90s and then I got a job with a distributor. Yeah. Doing um call in on small shops outstate um which reaffirmed I wanted to own my own shop. Um and in 1994, July 1 of 1994, my wife and I, Jenny, bought White Bear Glass from my uncle. Okay. Um, and the way the glass industry goes, you never can get out. You just move around within it. Um, so you wear a lot of hats that way, too. That's That's right. It's um it's an uh for me, I always viewed it as it's a super awesome industry because it's everywhere. like every part of your life has some portion of glass related whether um and when we bought White Bear Glass we were in both the flat glass and the automotive side. Yeah. Um in the early 2000s we decided to just shift away from the automotive side and strictly um focus on the flat glass side. Um and just there there's always something revolutionary going on with glass. Um, you know, you think of a being able to sit on your cell phone and rarely would you crack it. It has to fall quite a ways and have a um, and so those are all things that in our core values at White Bear Glass. Adventure is one of them because that's how I look at it. Like people ask us to get involved in something that they they've they don't call us because it's not broken. something's broke. Yep. And they're trying to get it they want to get it fixed. Get it fixed. Yeah. So, um that's uh that's my core belief is that we're we aren't going to run out of opportunity for sure. You know, we'll limit ourselves because of just the being humans. Um, and so that's what's always intrigued me about the glass business and that's how Pioneer Technology Solutions spun out of some of that adventure. Let's tell our viewers a little bit about what Pioneer Technology Solutions is and how and how that helps. So the the short story is um in 2010 um in the middle of the housing crisis, we're looking for um sales. So we had been um installing a hydrophobic coating on our shower doors to prevent the water staining. And um we took it to the St. Paul Boat Show, which is in the River Center in downtown St. Paul next to the Excel where the hockey team plays. And a gal came by our booth and says, "Will that go on porcelain and or porcelain or ceramic?" She we said yes. She grabbed a card. She says, "I'm here to buy a boat." Off she went. Anyway, about 6 months later, um, she got in touch with us and she is in the electric substation repair business, okay? Or maintenance business. And so, um, not to get too boring, in a substation, when there's dirt on an insulator and there's moisture, generally from like dew in the morning, y they'll get flashover. So the power goes around the insulator and tracks down it and can cause a failure. Um so we got in we that's when Pioneer Technology Solutions was born. Yep. We got involved in a group called EPRI. It's the Electric Power Research Institute. It would be the same thing as the UL listings for fuses and outlets, that kind of stuff. Absolutely. Um so with that we just learned a lot about what hydrophobic coatings can tolerate. Um the electric power industry like all industries has their core beliefs of what what can help and what may not help. Yep. Uh and the big thing is keeping the surface clean or making it easier to clean. Right. So a similar thing to what the shower door industry was looking for. How do we have people that have put this beautiful clear shower door in? How do we make them how do we make it easier to maintain? Right. Yep. So, we've spun around in that. Um the electric power industry is extremely slow. Um they take new products very slowly into it. Um we still work that industry. Um but because of that knowledge of what the codings are capable of doing um we expanded Pioneer and if you go to pioneer techsolutions.com our website now is a shows a beautiful railing so we're really getting into the um building maintenance. Got it. A lot of times prevention like before beforehand so you don't have to worry about what happens it's broken or you know it's clean and it's it'll stay it's easier to clean throughout you know especially in um hospitality. You know you don't want to walk into a room and the shower door looks iffy because then you're going to question the cleanliness of the rest of the room. Correct. And so from that um and at White Bear Glass, you know, we'd get people that would call and say, "My irrigation system is blowing all over the cars. It's all over my uh building and the windows are terrible. What can you do?" Um and before we'd say, "Well, you got to change your irrigation and replace the glass." Well, now we've um got 15 years of experience of removing the water stains, treating it, protecting it with a hydrophobic coating. We're not And if they don't change the sprinkler heads, it's going to get dirty again. Correct. Yep. Right. That's We do not clean the water. Right. Um essentially, make it go from hard water to soft water. Correct. Yes. And rain water is in comparison to ground water. There's very few minerals in the rainwater there. There is um it's not pure, but the groundwater depending on how deep the well it's coming from can cause everyone has seen it. You know, the orange rocks in people's yards from their uh lawn irrigation. Um, and so the the big thing for building owners is maintaining that outer facade looking fresh and new and clean. Uh, that that's been a really big um part of our process of walking them through. You know, if an insulated unit is failed, it's the the seal is failed and it's got moisture between it, right? there's nothing you can do with that, right? That's got to be replaced. But if it's just some kind of surface contamination, and again, it comes down to um there's a range of cleanliness we can get the surface, right? How do you do you tell people before you come out to try to clean it themselves or do you prefer to clean it before you do everything? We we we provide the cleaning. Okay. Good. Because there's specific way to do it probably. Yeah. And um with our back glass background um you know uh an insulated glass in a commercial building could have a coating on the first surface. Correct. Um you know in the film world I'm sure you run into that like where's low e coating? How do we have to install the film everything like that? Which layer which where are we going to put it? And so, um, our knowledge there makes us less afraid to go out. And it's really, um, our process is we we're contacted, we have this problem, here's the address, we go by, we bring our bag of tricks, we do a small test area. Yep. One. To make sure we we can get it clean to their satisfaction. Correct. Um, and the other thing is on a nonontaminated window, we have a laser reader and we have all sorts of the glass checklist thing. Yes. Yeah, you got it. So, there's nice technology in the glass industry to help confirm the makeup. Um, if it's something like a really unique color, Mhm. we always start with, let's find out what is this stuff still available, you know, is the makeup still available. Yep. Um, and that way they can cost compare if they because we can treat them. If they say, "Ah, we're going to put new glass in there." It's like, great, we can coat that. You get your glazing contractor to replace the glass, put the new ones in, we'll come back and we can apply our hydrophobic coating afterwards. Correct. And so that's a lot of the hospitality um as they're building these um projects. I looked at a big one in Arizona last month. Um it's got miles of glass railing, excuse me, and they're debating, you know, they're under budget constrictions, right? But then the cleaning people are like, you know, there's hard-to-reach places. I can't get them. I can't reach them. Yes. And so a lot of it is, let's do it in phases. Let's attack and get everything. Section one, phase one, you know, here's your hard to reach, make sure it works. Let's see how it's working in your Yes. in your temperatures, too. Yes. And so the then you can gradually do it. Um the restoration projects, they're at the you know, they're at the end of their ideas. Yeah. Someone says, "What if you cleaned it or had it cleaned?" Um, and then the world opens up. They're not They don't have this huge investment in replacing the glass. And glass takes a lot of natural resources from the time it's mined y to the time it's trucked to the installation company. And people don't understand that. They just think, "Oh, you're just going to cut a piece of glass and bring it in and install it." There's a lot more to it, right? Yeah. And it's and it goes to the landfill where it's going to sit for a millennial or some, you know, there's just nothing that is going to get it back to um its base elements. Um and so yeah from a reuse restore that kind of mentality that you know we have had projects where um they the customer is well aware this is not going to look that clean. Correct. Um it won't get to stage one but it'll make it better than what it is. From the inside, you can't tell unless you have your nose right against the glass and it's an office building and the sidewalk is 15 ft away. You could walk up to it and see that that it's not that there's still some residue there, but as you walk by it looks it's presentable. Yeah. So, going forward once you've installed it or you've applied the solution to it, what's the warranty like and how does that maintain with the sprinklers if they don't fix some things like that? Yeah. So, our um our conversation with the purchaser, whether it's uh the building owner or the tenant, y depending on who it is, is that one, you have to regularly clean it. Yeah. Right. I mean, that's generally why they get as bad as they get. Correct. It gets to the point of what they think is a point of no return if they don't maintain or wash it at least once a year, preferably twice. um the water buildup is going to happen. The other big thing and we've we've have several customers that we've strategically fixed their building as they've done redone their irrigation. So they go from a spray to a drip. And so um you know these buildings have granite on them. The you know in November it's 80 degrees the surface temperature because it's in the sun. Y obviously there's no sprinkler on it, but that surface in the summer gets extremely warm. Yep. And so just that irrigation, just the wind blowing it on there. And so from there, um, and again, that's up to them to if they decide to clean, how do you tell people or what do you tell them to clean it with? And what's the best like from the glass world first? Like what's the most proper way for Yes. Yes. Window washers like film guys use water and dawn, right? Dishwashing soap. It cuts the grease. It doesn't leave any traces on the surface. And so that's all they need to do. There's nothing their window washer needs to do differently to maintain it. Okay. Um and through our testing, um now again, a building is sitting there. It's not like on a windshield where you have it's there's all these particles hitting it and and the wafer um scratching away at it causing some kind of um lowering of the effectiveness of the coating um on a building. It's you may have to address some rough areas if you're not cleaning it, washing it regularly maybe after 10 or 15 years. Yep. Um, the hydrophobic coatings are extremely durable. Um, all the ones that we deal with, UV is not an issue with them. What about pressure washing? Uh, pressure washing won't hurt it. Okay. Um, the really abrasion is the only thing. Correct. And so when people say, well, what do you mean by abrasion? It's like, well, the that hard water that's coming out of your sprinkler and still on there. Yep. As you try to scrub that off, you're going to create self you're going to use that selfabbrasion on there to lower the effectiveness of the hydrophobic coating. Right. So, yeah, it's um it's interesting to go back past projects that we've cleaned um and to see the window washers just having at it, you know, and they look good and okay. Um so, yeah, it it's it's a it's an alternative until you have to replace the glass. And then if you do replace the glass, that's the time to put the coating on. Apply it again right away from start because then you won't have the buildup there for correct. Yep. Yeah. If you put it on and you regularly wash it, you may get some trouble spots. Um that's better than having a whole window having to be replaced again. Yes. Yeah. And when they once it starts to collect on the minerals start to collect on themselves, it just amplifies. Yes, definitely does. Yeah. You can see it. What do you think like when you started into the glass world? How was the transition from your uncle to you and Jenny and how did that go like technology-wise and just the transition in itself? Yeah. Um, you know, part of our um end of the world scenario still at Wiper Glasses, we still have some threepart carbonless forms. Yeah. Like if everything breaks down, we can still write an order up. They're in a they're they're in our uh in a file cabinet where scenarios the computers are down. Everything's down. But yeah, we literally we came in in 94. Um, you know, dialup internet. The 2000 everything's going to blow up. Your computers won't come on. Y um and today to uh so my son Barren is our president now for White Bear Glass. We're in that you know all my kids worked at White Bear Glass which you're fortunate like a lot of times the kids when they grow up Yeah. at this day and age they don't want to take over the family business. They don't want to It's just a mentality thing sometimes and then you get into the whole is it time to sell? What's my exit plan? Everything like that. Yeah. Yeah. for sure. And that is uh you should think about the exit plan. Yeah. Probably like year three, right? Um because you just never know. So uh just watching Baron start to bring this new technology in like we use smart toolbox or smart laser I think is the new name. I don't I haven't been trained on it. I write my orders on a piece of paper. The technology he brings in. Yes. Yes. Um, but all of that that the ability, especially for the shower door business, to be able to give a customer, you know, a 3D or a one-dimensional rendering of what it looks like. Yes. you know, where's the door? Where's the hardware on it? Um that um you know, the online presence um Google Google reviews, house, Angie's List. I mean, all of the you know, I he he doesn't get the humor in it, but you know, we negotiated yellow page ads, right? You know, 14 months before they were in. Yep. And then if you did anything wrong, you had to ride it out. Absolutely. You have to wait till the next one's printed. Yeah, it was I mean to me that's um that was the pace. I mean, when I started working for the distributor, um you know, we typed the proposals and mailed them. I mean, you literally had time Yep. to think about, oh, I'm doing that building for Karissa and she wants this and that. Oh, what about if this or that? Now it's you get the proposal within do it and it's gone. Yeah. Within a day there's not a whole lot of time to contemplate. Is there a better route? Is there um what other options do we have to play with too? That's a big one, right? Yes. Yes. And so that the speed um is the speed. I'm not a grumpy old man. It just it is what it is. Um and so with that um I think the human communication side um which never can go away or or when it does that's where the failure comes from is more important in an office like you know hey Chris I'm looking at this building this is what I'm thinking and your experience and knowledge is what am I missing you know yeah I did one of these three years ago and we ran into this is that you think that's there and it um you You can you can do it. It's not you're not waiting for the mailman right now. You have to go and and be comfortable saying, "I'm not sure. I just want to be covered." Because in the end, um you want to do it the correct way and the customer pays the price and that's um that's not uh good customer service. Correct. And so, um, I I just look at the the phones we have, not, you know, you can take a picture. Um, not the rotary style, not the dial up, not Yeah. I mean, it's it's like there's um so much technology to make it simpler if if your process has that written in there. Like, you know, if you're out at a job site, you take a picture, you print it, and you attach it for the text cuz when they get out there, then they have everything in their hands. They actually can look at it and say or in the shop while they're loading up like, "Uh, let's grab y whatever, right?" Um, so those those are the benefits of it. Um, I just don't think the speed of it is. Um, it is what it it is quicker. Um but I I see that there's more issues with uh the lack of communication is like oh we could have had that human touch. Yes. Yep. Yeah. People buy from people. So in the end like still hitting the spot hitting the streets and going to talk to people in person. Being more intentional not just hey how are you or I saw you on Facebook doing this or that. Let's let's go out and have that conversation. Let's you know let's let's chat the issue try to resolve it so it's not an obstacle. It's it's a resolution. Right. Yes. Right. Yeah. So that when we're there, you know, for next time, the problem solved. Absolutely. And that we understand exactly what the problem Yep. you're you're trying to get resolved. Um yeah, it's it's a crazy glass world. I mean, it's there's huge corporate glass outlets and there's still MPA. Well, there's always every level. Glass is always needed needed no matter where you go. That's one of the things that like it's the world's not going to build a building without glass or something that you can see through or need some kind of maintenance on it. When you started the Pioneer Technology Solutions, how was the processes the same or different from Whitebear Glass and how did you kind of incorporate both of those two worlds into one? Um yeah, so the as we started in the power side um our we basically had a one salesperson that focused on understanding that going to these EPRI meetings, doing gathering that data, making those contacts. Um and then the White Bear glass people were already used to selling the coatings on shower glass. I mean, that was Yep. That was a big leap. We missed the original jump from frame shower doors to to frameless the heavies. Um, yeah, just one of those things like, yeah. Yeah. And then when it was there, it was, you know, it was like, well, there's right now it's here. Yep. We're going to do them. We're going to pay the price of getting on that curve late. Um, everyone's already figured out all these scary things. we're going to go through them. Yeah. Um and then then you're there and you're doing it and it's like why didn't we do this sooner, right? Um we knew that the coatings um were going to be important because um just the dollar invested. You know, when I started it was a frame bypass shower door with Aquitex or some kind of pattern glass. Yep. The grossest thing there was the sill that had the science experiment. Right. five years later or 10 years later when you went to replace it. Um the new heavy glass showers are I mean they're just they're amazing what you can do. Yep. Um and protecting them. Uh I you know the industry is being pushed by the consumer, right? Because the consumer drives that. Um like what what am I going to do to keep this thing clean? Yeah. You still have to clean it. It's not self cleaning glass. Um I like to explain to people not yet. Maybe sometime in the future. Yeah. Yeah. I don't That'd be a weird Yeah. It'd be interesting. They've tried it, you know, with UV activation. It's just um I like to explain to people if you've cooked on a cast iron pan Yep. and a Teflon pan at the same time, the shower glass with the hydrophobic coating is now the Teflon. It's easier to clean. You still have to clean both. You clean them differently, right? Um, but they have to be cleaned. Um, and that's the thing. Now, the minerals are between the hydrophobic coating and the pores of the glass and so you have the best fighting chance to get them to release and come off and to make that glass look new. Yeah. We're also seeing a lot of I mean, which kind of ties to the shower doors, all the windows in the showers these days that are starting to come out and the bathroom windows that are getting the same amount of damage that are in there and wanting privacy and everything like that in those as well. Do you clean those and handle those the exact same way? Are they Yeah. Um if they're if they came from the factory and are tempered to meet the safety glazing code, we can clean those. if um we've referred Sun Control to go handle it because the building inspector is they got a passcode. Yep. Yeah. You know, the homeowner is like, "What happened?" You know, they have no idea. How did this window get there? I have no idea. It's just one the oneups. Yeah. And so from there, um, the once the film's on there, we don't, um, um, we get them back to you guys. Um, I know I just was out at a project where um, we had had a shower door installed. We did weren't informed that they were going to put um a frosted film on the exterior side of the shower, the dry side. Um the poor film installer was out there tearing his hair like this stuff is not attaching. What's wrong? Yep. Contractor calls us. Yeah. The process we use coats, we call it all six sides. So both surfaces and all the edges. So anyway, there's this big panic. Um how can we do this? And it's like, well, we've got a it's how we clean water stains off. We can remove it. Um, and I think to me that was the most comforting thing getting as deep into hydrophobic coatings as we are is knowing you can put it on and you can get it off. Absolutely. And and if it So if it goes bad, which is very rare and going bad would be who knows. Yeah, you never know what it is. Or there's a cup ring from the, you know, suction cups that go on it or someone cuts it somehow and Yeah. And so knowing that we can take that off and reapply it then I mean that gave us comfort. It's knowing that it can be re removed and reapplied. Yeah. Yes. Yep. In a lot of cases, um, everyone gets like, okay, it's not like get rid of it, right? Start new. He's got to get a whole new piece of glass. Yeah. Which again goes to that waste, you know. Um, we can mismeasure enough to cause waste. We can't stretch it or shrink tempered. Um, and so knowing that that piece of glass can be handled in as it is installed and cleaned and re and then recotated so it's hydrophobic again. That's that's the big thing. Do you see a lot of um people that reach out to you saying, "Hey," or a lot of other companies that do any of the Pioneer technology or the coatings on there that you have to go out and either redo the correct way or put new glass in for them? No. No. Um mo um so there there are some hydrophobic coatings for shower that are baked onto the surface. Yep. those um as far as I'm aware, I don't think there's anything you can do if there's an issue with it other than replace it. Right. Um all the we'll call them hand applied Yeah. coatings um can be repaired in the field. Okay, good. Um and so we don't um we wouldn't say to someone, oh, you put X manufacturer on, you should have put it should have put Y, right? You do what you do. Yeah, it is. Um, everyone's from a customer service standpoint, they're servicing those issues that customers have. Correct. And a lot of times it's um like a suction cup mark. Y um or a spot that got missed, right? And so over time they're like we wash this thing or clean this thing diligently, still seeing it, it's building up. We have this hazy spot here that's looks dirty. Yep. Um, if that's two or three a year, I you know, yeah, that's that's easy to do. And and that's that's why I like the hydrophobic coatings um and what they give the consumer in the end. Are there certain types of materials on the glass that you cannot apply those to? Um, so trying to think here. Ask, can you ask that a different way? Yep. Are there so if you have like single pane, double pane, triple pane, different lowey coatings on different sides of the glass, are there certain types of glass that you cannot apply the hydrophobic coatings to? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Um, so back in the 80s and 90s, they would take solar cool reflective glass and put the the reflective side on the number one surface. Yes. Now it should be on number two because that metal is on the outside. Um, we did a project in Detroit that was a brick building, had a lot of leeching. We got the leeching off, but the our coating there wasn't enough silica there. Got it. So, the coatings are made to attach to the silica. Um, so it's glass, granite, porcelain. Yep. Um, anything with a lot of silica. Mhm. marble we can't do much with you know those kind of um that was going to be my next question marble for sure because a lot of times people are starting to do marble on the outside of their homes and their businesses and everything else granite granite when we see someone with a granite issue it's like that's like having a piece of glass there we're good to go we're good um so yep u any kind of a metallic finish on the number one surface we have yet to run into uh number one surface lowi project yet. Now I don't it may now you're Yeah, it may be more hydrophobic than a uh untreated side of glass. I'm not sure. Um frit on a windshield. Um our testing with could you pre-treat a windshield before it went into a vehicle? Uh, we would recommend that doesn't happen. The hydrophobic coating and the frit, um, it doesn't hurt the frit, but it could be left on there and now the adhesive, the bonding to that frit has been compromised. Um, yeah, we've done, you know, we've done toilets, we've done, you know, for hard water stains. Um the biggest issue with people that we've treated toilets is they keep their bristle brush instead of getting a foam brush. Y so they're creating a lot of abrasion and they're using a strong acidic cleaning agent. Yep. Pure pure bleach, whatever it may be. Yeah, you got it. So th those can um can cause issues, but um yeah, for someone that's battled a toilet ring Mhm. it's an amazing Right. It it's an amazing solution. Um yeah, it's What have been some of your favorite jobs that you've done in both the glass world and then we'll talk Pioneer Technologies. Yeah. um glasswide. Um back in the day when the they were making these Snoopies and the Charlie Brown different figurines, um we had a customer that had bought a a Snoopy and wanted a glass dog house built for him. And so that was just one of those unique random unique things. Yep. He made it where Snoopy sat on a drawer and you could pull it out and he'd be outside the doghouse. I mean, there was some um some fun things there. Um I hate heights. Yep. Um I was on a uh project in uh Washington DC where they had made uh on a church where the steeples were actually glass and we're up there swing stage tied off. It was a JLG. Oh boy. Um, and it was it was in a great project to work on. I just like I had to I have someone else in that lane that'll do that. Oh, I had Yeah. The the person I was working with, he was super he knew. Yeah. He could tell I was, you know, and even after 3 days, I was still right. There was no issue. Um, but just that working while you're moving is a it's a weird sensation. Yep. Um but that was a really a great um again the amazing things that they can do with glass for sure. Yes. Y um the I don't we we've done so much at White Bear Glass of just custom. Absolutely. You know, um we have a our shop foreman Jim is we call him Macgyver. Mhm. He can um he can fix most things and has a real eye for doing things very well. And it it's he's he's been um like you say, he came with White Bear Glass. He he was there when White Bear when we purchased Whitebear Glass. He's a real asset and a real craftsman, which the glass industry has thousands of them for sure. Um it um glass cannot is not always easy to work with because if you hit it the wrong way you Yep. it chips, it breaks, you can't cut it like a piece of plywood. Um yeah. So, um, for Pioneer, um, going to some of these large, um, generation plants, like we were, we did a test in New York City. Um, at the substation that got hit by the hurricane that came down the Hudson there and flooded that. Um, and I'm always in awe of these major cities like Oh, yeah. just, you know, the Twin Cities is it's a it's a big small city. Yeah. You know, you drive around it in 30 minutes and you can go through them, right? Um and we have six million people in the whole city and they have 6 million down in Manhattan. I mean, it's just the size is totally different. And here's this gigantic substation that literally had a 13 foot wave go right washing through it. Yep. Um and that was super interesting. We did some testing with some product on um high voltage lines. Nice. Um so getting in a 120 foot reach to get up to the uh the power lines the the power line and put put coatings on. Um yeah, our electric power grid is um as Americans we don't realize how good it is, right? Um until it goes out, right? Yeah. And so there's, you know, the EPRI has everyone from around the world belongs that's in the electric production, power production, um attends these meetings. And so, um, they're just like, you know, EU Americans just don't get it. There's right so much of the world that they go to flip the light switch on, it's not working, and they don't call anyone cuz no one cares. There's no one to call. Y it's off. Yep. Um, you know, one group will shoot the power line insulator for another town down the street to knock their power out. I mean, it's it's uh we're very fortunate that we've built our grid like we did now. Everyone says it's old and aged, but it works. But yes, if your power goes out, usually Excel send you a text like there's an outage, there's an outage or you're down in your area, we we'll be back up in 45 minutes. We'll let you know or get you a timeline. So, um but yeah, just the um obviously the vastness of the power industry and the problems that they deal with every day from just all their stuff is sitting out in the elements. Oh yeah, absolutely. Right. And if you look at the globe at from night, all the lights are around the edge right where all the salt water is. Yep. And so there's contamination in location. I mean, you have the salt water from the oceans. You have the the scum and the stuff from the rivers, all the algae and everything that's out there. But then you get into all the other assets that are out there too to help protect. You have got the rain, you've got everything like that. How does Pioneer hold up in all the different temperatures that are out there, I should say? Probably. Yeah, good good question. Yeah. So, the hydrophobic coatings again, abrasion is the number one issue. That'll cause the number one issue for it to not be as effective. Number two, um, from abrasion is dirt buildup. So, it's sitting there. It's in an aid climate. Dust is collecting on it. A little dew in the morning. So, it never gets clean like Arizona, the sand, the dirt, the West Texas. Um so those regions um they they can power wash it easier. So um they'll either deenergize the substation or they use um demineralized water so they don't get electrocuted. Um but that is so abrasion's number one just dust and dirt collection's number two to make it inefficient and number three is some kind of an acidic like in the power industry they tested all the coatings um with bird excrement. I mean just because Absolutely. That's the one thing people don't understand like even if it gets on your car or anything with film or anything on it it's going to eat right through it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they have big birds landing on big high power power lines and everything way up high and um you know they have to get to those. A lot of those they get to with a helicopter and someone hanging out the side of the door with a big squirt gun. Yep. To wash them off. Um that wouldn't be you. That will not be me. I might not even get in the helicopter. I won't be out the door. I would probably try it, but it would be good. Yeah. I uh I don't know. I have the fear of heights. I mean, I can go on rides. I don't mind an airplane. But yeah. Yeah. Lift equipment gets me. Yeah. Um Well, it's a whole safety thing, too, though, right? Like, what's down below you? Are you going to drop something? Just you're handling large pieces of glass that's heavier than what people think, suction cups or however it may be. And yeah, that could easily fail. Yeah, there's air movement in and out of the building. So, um yeah. So the hydrophobic coatings they've tested that they are very durable. Um again the electric power industry is just hesitant um because they believe they have a solution right that they to to to mitigate the um flashovers. And so that's just a long churn and yeah it is what it is. That's why we have our foot in that door. Um, but we really are focusing on the restoration part. Just the cost of the materials to replace. Um, it's worth someone taking a stop at the restoration stop and try it, right? Does it meet your expectation? If it does, we can go forward. If it doesn't and you're going to replace, then we recommend you treat. Again, you don't have to treat the whole building, just the areas that could get the irrigation damage. For sure. Uh, when people are cleaning glass with squeegees, what kind of squeegees do you prefer that they use and how do they use them? If people are listening and don't know best way to clean them, uh, again, yep, Dawn and uh, Dawn in warm water and always replace your squeegee blades. It's just cut the glass. Yeah. It's just so much easier. um you don't have to battle streaks and drips and drops, right? Um if it's already coated with the hydrophobic coating, if you do have an issue, you missed a spot, you know, a microfiber towel will wipe it right off. It's again that there's that teflon coating between that water droplet and the surface. What do you think's next for you and your son and the company? any other um things that White Bear is going to go to or Pioneer is going to try out next? Yeah, so for um for White Bear the um you know, our our focus is staying in tune with the shower door manufacturers. what are they seeing as right what's the next latest movement up for um you know we have a shower door manufacturer 310 tempering they make a structural glass head rail so there's no metal the only metal you see are the rollers nice um it's a structural film that they've for sure yep sandwiched between two pieces of glass um so From there, I don't know what the shower door industry can do, right? They can always make them bigger and hold more and all that. Um, the issue with showers is how do you get it from the truck into the building or the house up the stairs or up the stairs around the corner through the small door and then around the toilet wherever it needs to go and then roll it up without sticking a corner in the ceiling. Yeah. Um the So that's what we see there. Um we white bearer has done a lot of uh apartment projects obviously that's kind of at its at its peak for right now. Um but that in doing that uh just understanding all the varieties LED mirrors that are out there. Yes. And what they can do um and you know we cut tabletops and we fix broken stuff for people in their house. I mean that that's our bread and butter is um you have an issue with a piece of glass in your house we're there well people are getting more creative on the things that they want especially with the glass and seeing more glass and making it more available to them is always an option too right yep the for Pioneer um our big goal for 2025 2026 is um moving being more recognized izable in like hospitality. Yes. Um car washes are another Yep. The tunnel car washes that you know popping up everywhere. Yeah. And the glass inside that tunnel. I mean you you want your car to look nice and new and when you pull out it does look nice and new. But what about the glass on the inside of that? You want that to How do you maintain that with um without a It's a big investment to build those structures and then how do you make it where you know just part of your opening and closing procedure somewhere in there they hose it down and run a squeegee over it. So, um we know soap film and all that stuff it right it builds up. You see it in your shower and you're like how'd that get there? Shampoo and bar soap. Yep. So, it's interesting. I mean, it's the world's changing and evolving, but in retrospect, you still have to clean. You still have to maintain. You still have to take care of glass, just like everything else. And a lot of times that's sometimes people's last marking. They're going to clean their house and forget to clean the glass. You know, they're going to clean the bathroom and it's a whole chore for them just to do the shower door, right? So, any way that can make their life easier and make them work smarter, not harder is feature to have. Yeah. And again, if if it is if the shower glass has a hydrophobic coating, wiping it off with a towel, just disrupting the water droplets is the best thing you can do. The best best thing is obviously to squeegee it. Y um but half of the population, men are going to say, "I hit it with the towel." Yeah. Yep. And Yeah, I know. But the squeegee was right there. Yeah, I know. I was in a hurry, so Yep. I just I just quick did it. What is the curing time for the solution once you have it on the glass? Um, as far as when they can get it wet? Yeah, you know, it's it it's going to start to cure immediately. So, depending on the um temperature out in the the atmospheric temperature at most 10 minutes. Okay. If it's, you know, 40s or 50s, you could have to wait maybe a half hour. Yep. Um, but generally if the sun's on it and the surface temperature is 70 degrees. What about shower doors? Same goes with the steam in the bathrooms. Everything like that. Steam doesn't Yeah. Steam does not affect Good. Good. Yeah. So, we've talked a lot about Pioneer. We've talked a lot about Whitebear. What's next on your agenda? Do you have any trips coming up or anything like that or any My wife is from Norway or her relatives are from Norway. So nice. Um we're going with her two sisters and their husbands from I think the end of the last week of July into a little bit of August. So have you been there before? I have not. No. Okay. I've been to Europe um for business, but I haven't been to to Norway. Yeah. Yeah. being able to try to put the phone down for a little bit does doesn't ever happen, but right try it out and see how it goes. Yeah. So that she hasn't traveled internationally. We've been fortunate to go to Hawaii. Um and I said, "Well, that's Yep. Once you get to a point where you're able to kind of leave and go on a vacation and know that everything else in the back end is going to be handled, that's when you kind of reach a new game level. It's like, "Oh, things will still be alive when I get back." Yeah. Yeah. No, Bear has me covered. Um he he does a great job. Um Yeah. But for Jenny, I said, you know, this traveling internationally just gets to be a little funky because Yeah. There's a lot of hiccups in that in that realm in that world. Yes. Yeah. I went to Africa last year and came back through Paris. Yep. right before the Olympics started. Two days after the Microsoft, of course, issue happened and yeah, it added uh about 36 hours of additional Yep. You always have to expect that. I mean, where do we go now? We went to Ireland and we went through Paris as well and it's like, okay, miss the flight because it's connecting. Even though it's like looks like it's eight or nine hours, it's still we got missed because our plane came in late because of taking off late. Luggage doesn't get there. So, you have the first four days of vacation without luggage of any kind. I'm like, this is this is what we do. This is why we do it. It's the memories, I guess. That's right. And every country has clothing. It does. It's just Yep. Well, and if we were going to play golf, we didn't I had my clubs. He didn't have his. So, it's like, okay, we have these big great grand expensive trip planned to play golf and we don't have golf clubs. Like, it is what it is. Uh, well, how can people get a hold of you and how can they reach out first at White Bear Glass? Yeah. Um, so Whitebear Glass, our office number is 651-4263289. My email address is jeffm jefffm likemikebearglass.com. And where can they find you? Where is White Bear Glass located? Uh, White Bear Lake, Minnesota. So, 1759 Commerce Court. We're on the south end of White Bear Lake. We've um been fortunate. We've moved around a few times in uh locations. We've been in the same one now for 23 years. As you know, moving Yep. is can be cumbersome. Uh, Pioneer Technology Solutions, we office in the same building. Um, my email address for that is jeffm pioneersolutions.com. Um, and you can always get a hold of me on my cell phone 651-2957668. Is there a website so people can check out some of your work? Yep. Whitebearglass.com and then pioneer techsolutions.com. Outstanding. Well, we really appreciate having you on today and we look forward to the growth and the collaboration in the future. Great. Thanks for having me. Yep. Thank you. [Music]