20 Years in the Window Film Business | Matt Kading, 3M #052

Hey everyone, it's Karissa Dunham. I'm here on Shining Light on Minnesota. Have an awesome guest with us here today, Matt Kading. Welcome Matt. Hi, thank you very much. Matt is with 3M and we're gonna talk everything today. So, I'm very excited. Matt, let's start and talk a little bit about the window film world. How'd you get into it and where are you at today? That sounds great. Yeah. So, my I guess my history with 3M, I've been there 19 years. Wow. Um, and and it expands a little bit broader than just, you know, window films and even even graphic films. But I started in the regulatory business at 3M. Um, got my start as a contractor for a year and then got hired on by 3M in that world in regulatory for me as a little bit of an extrovert. Um it was uh it was a challenge because I was kind of confined within the walls and then I I had a chance to get into our application engineering which was troubleshooting with customers and I kind of found my niche with that. Um so I I did that for about seven years and then moved into the sales world because it was a natural progression closer with customers solving problems you know looking at opportunities and and really kind of controlling my own destiny. Yeah. Yeah. So, got into sales um for about seven years and then sales training for a year and then came back as our regional sales manager here in the Midwest. You've got some pretty big shoes to fill. You know, you you've gone from where you're at to now filling in Joe Gandre's position. Joe is a huge name and a huge huge position to fill. Like he's he's awesome. He's retired now, but I mean having having those those shoes to fill. Yes. Yeah. a huge challenge, but at the same time, you know, Joe and I worked together. Joe was the one that kind of brought me from the lab into sales. Yeah. Um and and the mentality was I can take your personality, I can take your knowledge and help you become a better salesp person. Absolutely. And so Joe was always that mentor to me and I think, you know, I he still is. I I call him every now and again and not to bring him out of retirement to just, you know, ask some questions, see what he thinks about something that maybe I think of and and he's just been a great resource and a great person. So appreciate all he did to prep me for what I what I have. Um but also just the person he still continues to be. Absolutely. And he'll always be that person. I mean, we see him all the time. We talk to him and he's just that he's just that person. I mean, I'll never forget sitting in the in the booth and having him say he's going to be my replacement sitting sitting back there last year and just prepping for that. But I mean, he's an amazing person. I mean, back in the day, having him be there, Dan Barowski, who's now in a different territory, rep and having you be there and everybody else and, you know, 3M shifts and changes and it grows and it's it's amazing to see all the changes. Yeah. And and for us, you know, the advantage of of a big company like 3M is everyone can kind of have a specialty. Absolutely. And and you know, that's that's our I guess strategy with Sun Control is we have a number of different people that service you guys in different ways. Yes. whether it's, you know, flat glass, whether it's automotive, PPF, um, graphics, where it's kind of more my specialty. Um, you know, you guys play in so many different areas. So, it's it's a blessing and a curse that, you know, there are a number of specialists, but there's not just one point person. So, you know, I think that's where Joe really did a great job to say, hey, I'll field some questions for you as a customer right in our backyard. Help me understand what you need and I'll push for you within the broader network. For sure. So, let's dig a little bit deeper. Let's talk some of the products so some of the customers and people listening know what some of the 3M products are and they can kind of start to understand them a little bit. Let's start with PPF. So if people don't know what PPF is, they understand what it is. I know there's some new PPF products on so they can start to understand them a little bit. Yeah. And I think on the PPF world, we're trying to have kind of a good better best strategy. Absolutely. Now, now best might mean something different to every customer. So that's that's a great thing that we can start those conversations. But with us is there is, you know, some advantages with going up in our kind of our portfolio, but starting with our our base tier, our 100 series, so kind of newer. Um, but our 100 series a little bit thinner at at almost, you know, 7 ms. PPF is paint protection film if you didn't know. Great. Yeah. So, so again, yeah, I think we we throw around a lot of jargon at 3M and in the industry, but our paint protection films, you know, really a urethane based film, you know, there to help with rock chips and scratches and all of the the little things that can happen on your car, right? And and really a major benefit when you invest in a purchase like that and want to protect that investment. Absolutely. So, so the paint protection films with us starting at that 100 series available in gloss um you know up to 60 in and really kind of that that you know first tier our lowest price product. Yes. Um and then moving to our 150 gloss you know coming very very soon. We've we've kind of done some field testing and and beta testing. So we always like doing that with our our strong partners to say hey blow holes in this you know install it try it you know beat it up test it like you would. Um, and we love we love being the test dummy on me for those just to see how they go and what's coming soon. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. So, very valuable feedback for us. Um, and that 150 series kind of in that middle tier. So, kind of in that that better category. And then, you know, some some other advantages with that. Um, you know, just a little bit longer lasting with us. They may be a little bit of a different adhesive, different install experience with that. Um, and then last, our 200 series available in gloss and matte, which is exciting. A lot a lot of those people really like going from the typical gloss car to the matte car, matte black, all the other colors. Yes. Yeah. So, so another advantage with that one, just a little bit thicker um hydrophobic coating on that and then um you know, offering a little bit longer warranty with that extra thickness and and really having uh up to 72 in is another advantage. Huge advantage. Yeah. So certain vehicles really will kind of have to stay in that because of the the width requirements, but you know, with us having all of those in our portfolio coming very very soon with that 150 now having kind of all different uh avenues for customers to pursue. And in paint protection, there's also colored paint protection films too. Right on. Yes. So it it really, you know, when you think about that whole opportunity to personalize your vehicle and protect it. I think historically customers used to use a number of our films to personalize and then they would have to come back with a secondary application to for that protection and so we we saw a niche in the market to say hey there are other you know colored paint protection films on the market. You know 3M likes to invest and and really do a lot of field testing globally locally. So we did that and and really came up up with a product that met both of those needs and met it um with a dry install. Correct. So, we took some time to really invest in that install piece because we have a number of installers that aren't on the paint protection film wet install world and they're used to a dry install. And so, we took some of our our control tech and comply, you know, some of the technology that helps you install with sliding and bubble-free installs and we put that in a colored personalized paint protection film, which is a really great product to have. I know we've used that on some of our own personal cars and it's it's amazing. It is. People love going from different colors, especially in the paint protection world, to really protect their car and change the color. Right on. And I think we did a great job, not not me, but our team of of looking at those colors that are really trending in the industry, you know, like British racing green, you know, some of those colors that are so unique and maybe a little bit out of that comfort zone. Um, we talked a lot about comfort zone today, but, you know, pushing outside that like I know you do and and really finding those colors that are are leading edge. Absolutely. And really investing in those 26 colors that we launched to say, hey, these are kind of like on that edge of trends because nobody wants the typical, hey, they don't want to go just from white to black. I mean, if they do, they want to have that that different color black. They don't want to just go from one color to a basic another color. They want to really, hey, I want the different color. Yeah. They want to change it. Right on. And I think, you know, with that series, it's it's a 10-year bumper-to-bumper product. it kind of matches that paint protection and brings some of that protection into the graphics color change world. And so now having all of those benefits and the removability, if you want to change it after a couple years, take it off, try a new color. Absolutely. So, as far as paint protection, we've talked about that. Let's talk a little bit about the Dino world. And what is Dino? People always ask me, what is Dino and what what are our architectural films? Yeah. So, and Dino is kind of a fun one for me because it it also blends, you know, what we have the technology of our color change graphics and and printed graphics, some of the the comply air eress of easy install, but we put it into a a kind of preprinted, you know, a number over a thousand patterns. So, whether it's wood grains or marble like faux marble or, you know, color solid colors, we still have solid colors in that series. So, a number of films that really can help customers solve some of those architectural almost like, you know, um wallpaper kind of kind of solutions. So, it's a little more rigid. Um but like I mentioned texture to it. Yeah. Has has a texture has especially the the wood grains really feel like a natural wood for sure and look like a natural wood without the weight. So, when I think of applications for our our dino and architectural films, it's faux beams. It's, you know, things that are, you know, you want to lightweight something without the weight of an actual wood or, you know, cement or marble. People have a desk that needs to be refinished or a door that needs to be refinished or elevators. We see a lot of a lot of elevators that need to be done or I mean just as as simple as a front desk. Like you talk about those beams when we're going in places. There's a lot of different applications that people come to us and say, "Hey, let's just change the look. Let's do a countertop. Let's do, you know, the front office when we go into their hospitals, schools. Yes, absolutely. Well, and I think the the major advantages for us is, you know, there's less downtime. You know, if you think of a school that, you know, you have very short times that you have to refinish a school area. You don't want to have the mess. You don't want don't want to throw something away. So, there are sustainability benefits. There's also the downtime benefit. And hospitals, you know, it's like you want that room to be available for the next patient. Yeah. Yeah. So, so many situations like that, you know, so many benefits of going in, doing a bunch of doors at night and then the next day ready to go. Hotels, that's Yes. Get in and get out, get it done. And the cost of the din versus putting in a bunch of new doors or refinishing those. I mean, it's it's unbelievable. And you can match the colors. People don't understand. Hey, you know, what do you have that's close? Let me bring out the options of Dino with the options that we have and let's let's find something close. Yeah. And I I like what we did. We have another catalog that's like our top 190 patterns. So, the book can be a little overwhelming. The solid book, you want to make it simple, like cut it down, right? Yeah. We had over a thousand patterns in there. And I think, you know, bringing so many options to customers, you've got to be a little bit of a challenge. So yeah, kind of really kind of refinishing that to say, hey, there are all those options if we want to get super specific, but here's the top 190 available through our master distributors available in the US because Dino is made in Japan. Correct. So So I think we did a great job with that recently and I'm I'm really kind of proud of that team's work to say, hey, these are great options and these are ready for you. Ready right now. Well, there are some really unique finishes. I know we've done like some leather um staircases. is we've done some, you know, some gold fleck ones, a lot of carbon fiber, which people don't know that's available, too. So, it's really unique. Yeah. So, we've talked those two. Let's go into the decorative window films, the Fisara books, so people understand what those are. I know a lot of times people always are used to hearing about dusted crystal. Yeah. But let's go a little bit more. Let's go gradient. Let's talk a little bit about that stuff. Yeah. And I think you know another area that is probably underutilized when you look at our broad portfolio um you know I think we stick with a lot of uh clear clear printed window films and that's where people kind of tend to know 3M and then all of a sudden they say well I I'm doing you know a number of windows I want the consistency I want a you know the same pattern over and over and you know from the installer perspective um you know a lot of people install uh polyester films and they're used to that and so having a preprinted polyester film in our FAR series and having that available ready to go in all of those um that's a major benefit that we are are trying to make sure that people understand from 3M how important do you think is it for people when they say hey you know I want a 3M film but I want it to be installed correctly yeah and you know I I think you know installation training and and certification is a big part of our success. You know, 3M um years ago, I I I remember Marcio. I don't know if you remember Marcio. So, Marcio kind of created our 3M certified and 3M preferred program because we had challenges, right? So, we would sell highquality films and you know, it's a premium and then all of a sudden people wouldn't install it correctly and then bubbling, fading, everything else that you don't want the 3M film to be, right? And we don't want our reputation to be staked on somebody that made, you know, a mistake because they didn't know how to do it, right? They don't clean it correctly. You get the things underneath it. Yeah. Right. So, so I think having that program and started in St. Paul and then we expanded to kind of five locations. Um, and now we actually have an installation training manager that actually kind of tries to get all the paint protection film plus the graphics plus the flat glass all under one kind of umbrella program. So, we're working towards having all of that consistency training from one site to another site. Um, all the same vehicles, all the same, you know, glass and all of that. So, I I think having that program, you know, started and and seeing so many benefits on the fleet side now carrying that over into other spaces, um, we're seeing less complaints, we're seeing less frustration, and I think customers are ultimately quite a bit happier. Um, and so the challenge now is just now we have to look at reertification. Absolutely. And and what does that look like? What's what's the standard time? Do we only reertify people when new products are available? Do we try to do it every three years? Can we utilize, you know, Microsoft Teams and and other, you know, online kind of training, right? So, because I mean, if if they're not certifi certified when it's installed, how do you know what to warranty, what not to warranty, right? Like if people buy something online and they try to do it themselves, you can tell you could tell good tint from bad tint. You can tell good good installs from bad installs and how it's done. Yeah. Yes. So, we've talked the Facars, we've talked the DOX, we've talked paint protection. Let's dig a little bit deeper and talk some of the new safety security films cuz I know there are some new ones there. Yeah. Yeah. Some new ones and exciting, you know, I and I was actually Yeah. some some changes, some extra thickness, some and and safety films are an area that we continue to get questions and opportunities, you know, routed to 3M. The the biggest thing that I I you know, hope our customers understand, we're very cautious with where we put those films and the wording that's used to use it and we have lawyers at 3M and and you know, we have to follow certain guidelines, but you know, we always have on the graphic side, we get a lot of people saying, "I want the bulletproof film." Yep. And we hear that as well. give me bulletproof film and we would love to have a bulletproof film. There's not one. I'm not aware of one. Nope. Not one. Period. So, it's it's a little bit of education when we hear those requests. And so, our team is constantly innovating on the safety and security side. Extra thickness, extra, you know, tough films. And I've seen so many demos. You guys do great demos here with baseball bats and and what we call them is barrier to entry films. And so I it's it's a great barrier to entry and it saves time and it can save lives. We need to be very cautious with what we overpromise. Right. Right. And and it's a system. It's it's it's just access protection and it's going to slow down the process. Right. Right. And and there's a it's not just a film. Right. It's there's a a cocking system. There's a window sealant system, bomb blasts and everything else. Yep. Right. So I think with that, you know, there are a number of solutions and and we really try to say if you're interested in that, go to a trusted partner, one of our partners that specializes in that. Don't don't try to become that. Go to them first. Let them, you know, we we have kind of a closed network with that type of product and some control bullet resistant. There's not a bullet resistant film and that's that's the legality of it. Right. Right. Right. But but some new products, the 2400 um you know coming out. What is the 2400? So, it's an extra thick um safety film that, you know, just just like what we've had the predecessors, you know, a barrier to entry film, but this one's even tougher, even thicker, and and new and and you know, exciting for us. Yeah. So, I know a lot of people are used to the Ultra 800. So, the Ultra 800 is something that's going to um you know, the basic safety security film slows down the process. It's a tempering of a glass, right? So, when someone says, "Hey, I have a window that's not tempered." We can put that on there. It will allow inspectors to go in and say, "Hey, you know, it'll pass inspection for us." Absolutely. Ultra 2400 that is a lot thicker obviously. Yes. Right. It's funny when I go in and do presentations and I say, "Okay, here's a 2400. Let's try to see if you can rip or tear this." And Oh, man. Through that whole presentation, we have big contractors out there with everything they've got trying to trying to get through it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. I think I I saw some of that on the graphic side when we when we launched our uh Envision rap. Yes. So, it was a higher tensil strength rap film. Y and we would do demos where we would try to get people to break it and and the the standard graphic films, 2M cast vinyls, you can tear, you can rip and all of a sudden they'd get to an Envision rap film and you'd see their faces turn red. You'd see the elbows come up and you'd want to create C tape that you guys have. Right. Right. You'd have to create a little extra space around yourself because you don't want an elbow in the face. I mean, they even have like their little knives out. They're trying to cut through it and like ripping it. And Terry, I'm like, "Okay, we're going to like, yep, you have your own table and just just try it while I'm here." Right. Yeah. But I see that kind of happen with 3M. And that's that's kind of the exciting part of being at 3M is we'll take technology, you know, and trends in one space and expand it to a different space. Y so you know some of the the advantages of of VHB tape and and sticking to low surface energy plastics and taking some of that chemistry and putting it into vinyl films that need to stick to powdercoated paints and plastics and outgassing surfaces and things like that. So it's it's really fun to you know to have history in the lab. Absolutely. have those connections, have that space where we can look for opportunities and challenges from our customers and say, "Hey, I I actually know of a technology." Now, it'll take us a little bit of time to make, you know, the connections, but we can do something custom for the right kind of volume. Right. So, well, and I think it's exciting as you know, as Sunrol and everybody else that's out there to see all the changes and all the different products that are out there that are coming and going and then to see them actually put in full fruition. So, you know, seeing them tested, seeing them them out there, and then being put put into our hands and saying, "Hey, now you guys go out there and try to try to sell it." It's like, "Okay, I'm going to go out there and present it and see how people actually like it, what they think of it, and then getting their feedback once they try it out." Because I mean, that's one of my jobs is to go out there and present it to people and then be like, "Okay, let's put it on a project now. Let's try to print on it and, you know, like let's let's install it and see what the guys think once they're actually doing it, too." Right? And it's so important to have that feedback, you know, all through the process. And so, you know, we try to get I'll I'll kind of reference our our latest digital print film, IG280. We did a global field test. We got 78 different locations. We had a bunch of different installers, a combination of blind testing, so they didn't know what product it was. competition and try to remove the information and then really get that valuable voice of customer and voice of the installer to say I like this, I didn't like that. And so we did that with 280 and really found major advantages kind of that goldilocks of our adhesion level of that that you know initial tack. So it's not too sticky. It's it's sticky enough. It's the right It's the right perfect. Yeah. Really kind of, you know, honed in. And so we took all of those locations, all of that feedback and really kind of created a product that we feel meets the market need. Right. So, so we're very excited about that. Um, that's been a a product that, you know, I think has has really kind of stayed in a lane for a little bit as it was first launched. It was in almost transit vehicles only. Absolutely. And we say it's it's 20% faster to install even than our our 1880. 180. So, it's it's a you know, the J180 being a very common product that everyone knows and has history with on some level and they say, "Well, I know that one and that seems to work pretty well for me, but if this one's even better or even 20% faster than that, try it and see what we think. Let's try it out." Absolutely. So, we're very excited about that one and there's a little bit of a push going on right now or very, very soon coming with that. So, which is exciting. I mean, it's I know in your world and everybody else's world, there's always supply and demand issues, but at the same time to see the later and greater and if it's even better, let's get it in. Yeah. Especially when we get into I mean, the window film, all the the es and flows that go with it. But when we get when when we start talking window tint, the Prestige series, Night Vision series, that stuff's just rocking. You can't you can't help but not like Prestige. I mean, People think window tint, they always think dark. Yeah. Let's talk prestige now. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and just like you said, right? I mean, I think we're so used to people thinking that dark equals, you know, protection and it equals, you know, heat reduction and all that. And so I it's you if we have a chance to separate those two things, I would love to do that. Absolutely. And that's probably your challenge all day every day to say hey there are films that darker does create a little privacy does create some benefits but it is it is a a separate entity than heat rejection than than all of that benefit. Yep. So you know our prestige series and just like our automotive window tints uh the crystalline series they have very similar technology we talked about that technology sharing but similar technology where it's it's a complete heat rejection and nano layers you know like I I forget how many layers of you know so many microscopic layers in each of those films to to really kind of become a barrier for that infrared heat and all the extra heat coming in. So it's a comfort level thing. um you know sponsored by the American Cancer Society to have some some statements we can say about that. So many advantages with our top-of-the-line um heat rejection window tint films. Um and then you know like our other film series we'll try to have other films that meet the needs of our customers. Correct. whether it's uh color stable, whether it's, you know, uh ceramic IR, some other films that kind of go down the pyramid. Um offering certain benefits, but not all the benefits of the premium where it's a ton of heat rejection, right? Well, because you know, a lot of times when you walk into somebody's house and they're like, "Oh, I bought the house for the view, but I don't want to stop that view." It's like, "Okay, well, I've got a perfect product for you." You know, you can have the view still and have the 99% heat rejection or the 99% UVA UVB rejection that you need. You know, it's it's one of those like you can have the film, we can put up a sample for you. We can, you know, just show you the difference when you have the Prestige 70 up and still see the difference on your floors. Yeah. Because a lot of times it's, hey, my floor is fading. What can I do? Or right, there's a glare here. Let's talk a little bit about daytime privacy because everybody says, hey, I want that privacy film. Yeah. People don't understand there's not a nighttime privacy film. And that's one that we get often. Um, hey, you know, I have a storefront I don't want people to see in. And and like you mentioned, I mean, there's so many things that we can do with, you know, kind of mirror finishes, but unfortunately, that only works as long as the light on the outside is is brighter than the light on the inside. They see it on TV, but in those dark rooms, it's always darker on the inside than it is on or Yeah. darker on the outside than it is on the inside. Yes. Right. So, so continued challenges, but I I think you know there are films that work to create privacy. You guys do a great job with that. You know, we we do that not only with, you know, some of the privacy films, but also with um perforated window graphics and creating a lookout but can't see in kind of environment and printing on those. I mean, the sky's is the limit on what people want. Um it's it's amazing how many times people want different looks, can achieve different looks, getting getting their branding on those, which is a lot of fun. Yeah. Um and then let's dig into the night vision. Everybody loves the night vision 15, 25, and 35. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and it's, you know, we've had some challenges with night vision and but it's rolling back out. It's rolling back out and and we're excited to kind of have that supply back out there. You know, night vision being a fantastic mover for us. you guys are a great customer with especially with night vision. Um, you know, it's one of those products that I think has been a staple of our portfolio. And so, you know, looking at that, you know, and again, we have we have specialists that really kind of get into window films a little bit more than I do. But, um, you know, I I'm very excited to have the supply back where it needs to be to have the the material rolling to our customers and having that product be exactly when they want it, as they need it. And you know, a lot of opportunity with that right now, which is exciting. I mean, there's so many different window tint products that we could talk about from 3M. But now that we've touched there, let's let's look at some of the walls behind us. You know, let's go into the graphic world. Obviously, we've got wall graphics behind us. We've got it all there. I mean, there's so many different options and availabilities that we could go on. Um, and graphics are kind of your world. I was going to say that's my sweet spot. Let's talk a little bit about the graphic world, shall we? Well, and I'd love to tell the story of how I got introduced to to sun control. Really elite. Absolutely. So, elite tinting and graphics in Duth. Um, I was our application engineer for reflective graphics and field testing new adhesives on some of our reflective 680s and 680 CR and I got connected with Phil Bird's Eye. Phil is amazing. Phil's the rock star of all installers. He is. And so, we were looking for, you know, higher volume users to field test a new adhesive. And I got connected with Phil and he gave me a a list detailed as can be. He is he's the most detailoriented like you need something he's gonna okay I'm gonna tell you about it but then here's my list. It was amazing. And so I was like I got to keep in touch with this guy. So he he you know tried the product. He liked certain things. He wanted to modify it a little bit. He wanted more to test. And it was it was like the right kind of feedback. It was detailed but it was positive and it was challenging all at once. Absolutely. And I I loved it. And so I was like, well, I' I've got to get more connected with this guy. And every now and again, you know, whenever I'd get up to DUTH, I have, you know, a couple customers up there on the OEM side, like Cirrus Aircraft. And I would stop in and I'd be like, "Hey, Phil, I you know, I don't call on you as the 3M rep right now, but I want to stop in." And he was all eyes and ears and and he would welcome me and and he did a great job. So, I appreciate that introduction to to Elite and to Sun Control that way. Perfect. And and again, my old role as a sales rep, I was I was focused on, you know, some of our OEM customers and certain other customers. And so I wouldn't have complete ownership of of Sun Control as a as a rep, but I was exposed to you guys and knew you guys did almost everything, right? And so it's exciting for us to see the walls decorated, the vehicles in the bays, you know, the the tint, the ppf, and really kind of knowing you guys as a do-it-all service provider, architectural, clear films, printed films, and so the the graphic films are are again a little closer to my my background and and what I grew up in. Um, and and really we have a good, better, best strategy with graphic films. have have products that meet that lower price point, have products that, you know, perform at an intermediate price point and premium products where we are probably more wellknown. Well, and that's what people don't understand and they say, you know, I don't know if I can where I want to be. I said, you know what, we have products and we have a we have price points that'll meet where you need to be. So, let's let's see what you want to do and then let's let's expand from there. Even with vehicles, you know, let's let's see where you need to be. Whether it's just spot graphics, right? We can do partial wraps, we can do full wraps, or we can, you know, get into the reflective. We can go, you know, anywhere you want to be. There's over laminance. There's so many different options and so many different textures and everything that you can get into, right? And it can be overwhelming, right, for a customer. And we don't want to go all into that, but we can be there, right? And and I think our job as as sales people is to keep it simple and eliminate the noise and ask those questions. And so as our sales trainer that was a lot of what we focused on is saying what you know what is the customer's driving factor you know how can you separate that from the noise and just make it easy for them to make a quick decision right and so you know when we go to trade shows at you know whether it's SEMA ISA you know SGIA the old SGIA printed and so you know just meeting with customers and trying to understand what their questions are right and not overwhelming them with too many choices but just saying help me understand your project help you what do you want, what's your why? Kind of those things, too. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, take that, simplify it for the customer and say, my opinion is this is the best product for your solution or what I try to say is the lowest price product that meets your needs. Right. We we try not to be in that, hey, this is the cheap product. We don't we have like an ABC and an option like we'll hand you to our designer. We have in-house designers. She'll give you an ABC. You can make a couple tweaks from there. Then, let's move forward. Here's our process. Well, and I love your graphic out front where it's like a vehicle and it starts with some spot graphics and then next is some partial wrap and then full wrap and then full wrap with reflective accents and you know, you can really go crazy and for the right customer, they want that. They want that. They want to see what their full options are. Yes. And same with paint production. I mean, there's there's all different options for every customer and every price point. Yeah. You kind of want to show, you know, good, better, and best. Same with the window tint. When you're up there, you can feel the good, better, and best cuz it's not the color. It's not the darkness, it's the heat protection, just like everything else, right? Well, in the graphics world for us, you know, I think so many customers, depending on where they're at, the size of the shop, how how many printers they run, they might look at this wall graphic and say, I just want one roll that can do this plus a car plus my floors, plus everything. And we have that, right? We have 180 that that has been that product. Um, and floors are different. There could be texture, there's scuff res resistant, you know, just different things, too. Right. So, if you get to a shop that maybe wants to specialize a little bit more, then we start talking about, okay, for floors only, maybe you want to look at a a sidewalk film, maybe you want to look at 40C as a floor graphic, brick material, everything. Yeah, there's all different options. So, so a number of of things that we can kind of do in the graphics world that say, hey, like if you just want a general film, we have that. if you want to specialize a little bit more, we can we can be a resource. We can make it all happen. Yeah. And and 3M we have we've got 40 sales reps kind of throughout the US. Most of them graphic focused, you know, on the personal auto side, about four that are really kind of regionally. So, so graphics are really kind of where we made our name and where we where we have a lot of resources. I think we're trying to get a little bit more support on the on this, you know, personal auto side. Personal auto side, too. Yes. Yeah. What do you think's next in your world and in in the whole film world? Yeah, I mean for us, you know, I think if we looked back, you know, 5 years ago, it was I need it faster. I need to, you know, wrap faster. I need it to protect longer. And now those products have really kind of come about, you know, with JJ280, with the protection wrap films, you know, I I see, you know, rumors of of direct printing onto walls and things like that. And we've seen some of those printers high investment in that whole AI world and all that. Yeah. And and so I think it's it's exciting to see, you know, what's what's going on, but I still think there's space for vinyl printed graphics. Um we've got, you know, like like our uh Envision Rap Film has a lot of sustainability benefits with the composition. um green guard certification, lead credits, a lot of that sustainability push and I think that's more within scope now than it was 5 10 years ago. People wanted it but didn't want to have a trade-off. And now I feel like we're almost there. You know, basically we've got um our Envision Wrap films that that really don't offer many tradeoffs. Um and then we have a new product that is I think was launched last week called PL50. It is a biiobased material. So it's made actually of corn. Oh, very cool. And it is, it has a changeable adhesive, so it's easy on, easy off. Which kind of funny that you bring that up because a lot of times when we go into architects, they're starting to ask about more green materials and more materials that are made naturally and holistic and things like that, too. So, yes, I think this has our strongest sustainability story. Um, you know, everyone wants something that, you know, when you're done with it, it dissolves immediately. Everyone wants something that's made out of something. And what are the adhesives made of and what is the material made out of? It still has to perform. Absolutely. Yeah. And and so I think we've we've really kind of compromised on that to say the adhesive is going to be easy to work with. The film is going to, you know, be cornbased and and we've got some some claims around what that means. And it also has indoor air quality certifications with Green Guard, so there's not a lot of VOCC's coming out and smell the curing process and all of that, too. Yeah. And and so I think what people are really looking for is a narrative to to tell when they go into a hospital or into a school and say this is better than that because of these five things. Absolutely. And so we we've tried to make that simple again for our customers to say hey this is going to be a better choice and and this you know here are the advantages of this and they I think it has a stronger story than anything else we've ever had. Absolutely. So that's what I see as kind of like the future of, you know, hey, where where were we going? Where were we and where are we going in the future and and now it's like, yeah, the sustainability without major trade-offs. Yes. So So personally wise, you're at 3M. You've been rocking it there. Familywise, what's what's new in your family life? Well, that's and that's the important stuff, right? That's the why and the driving purpose. Yeah. and and you know, again, we kind of talk, you know, like, you know, faith, family, film, you know, that kind of stuff. So, so it's it's fun to have that. Um, I've I've got my my wife Christine, she's from the Twin Cities. I met her in college in Duth and we went to UMD and then I chased her down here. This is home for her. This is this is, you know, I'm from North Dakota. So, so this is this is kind of her place and here we are 19 years later, right? So, I did one thing smart. I I my anniversary at 3M is very the same year as my anniversary with my wife. Hey, that works. So 19 years made it keep it simple, right? Yep. Absolutely. And so um Yeah. So So next year's a big year. Next year's a big year. There you go. Yeah. And probably high expectations. So are you going back to North Dakota or you know? Well, yeah. As we turned 40 a couple years ago, we took a trip with friends back to the Bahamas where we got married. Very cool. And so we kind of knocked out maybe one of those things. Maybe we'll just have to do something similar item. Yep. Something simple. Yeah. pay attention. She's going to be planning now. Yeah. She's like, "You said Yep. on that podcast." I remember. Yeah. But then we've got two kids. My my daughter Ava is 12. My son Cameron's 10. And so, and they're keeping us busy. Um, Christine played college soccer at Louisville. So, that both kids are very into soccer. I played basketball. Christine played basketball in high school. I like that you said Louisville. I met with somebody yesterday. It's funny when people say Louisville and that's how I even though they're not from there. Like that's Yeah. I mean, my dad played baseball for Cincinnati and he was always Louisville for him, too. And when you talk to people that are not from there, it's Louisville and I'm like, "Nope, it's Louisville." Like, trust me, it's You're wrong. I was wrong. I got it. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. No, she Yeah, she taught me that. But yeah, I mean, the kids are are busy, you know? It's it's soccer, it's basketball, and both sports are almost year round now, 100%. It's it's a calendar in itself on top of work and on top of life and Yeah. So, so the challenges are kind of set forth of, hey, you know, our family's awesome. We love it. you know, we're we're based in Bloomington. Um, and and I'm, you know, I kind of grew up in the shadow of 3M here at for my last 19 years, but I still travel quite a bit, whether it's trade shows, whether it's within the region to go see our reps and and see our customers. So, there's a lot going on that I just need to balance that schedule as best I can. And it's funny because there's there's the balance is is interesting, right? I I get it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's and for everyone there's a different balance, right? and and for us, you know, Christine's been working, you know, part-time and and now kind of going back a little bit more full-time. Um, and and trying to match the kids schedules. So, she's she was a teacher by trade and and now kind of subbing and and doing some other things. So, you know, now it's kind of that time in life where we're kind of seeing a shift. The kids are old enough now so that we can kind of do a little bit more as adults, but yet we're still in that phase where they need to go to soccer practice. Yep. You got to shuffle them around and chauffeer them around and do that thing. Yeah. Yep. But it's fun and that's you know I kind of you know try to try to share the passions share the activity and have some fun with them and that's just it right I think that's my you know anything we do right I want to have some fun I want to you know get to meet people I'm a little bit more of an extrovert so you know having that background in the lab and and being able to make those connections are kind of what excites me absolutely and whether it's it's connections with new families at soccer or basketball or connections with new customers and solving their their questions and problems. That's that's fun for me. I love that. Who have been uh I know you've talked about Joe being some of your mentors. Who have been some of your other main mentors when you've been through the process and grown up? Yeah, it's kind of funny. I actually had a lunch this week with two other mentors um both within 3M. Uh the first one, Greg Bro, and and Greg was a name that um his dad, Jack Bro, was in the commercial graphics for years in marketing. So when you think about like the the 70s, you know, late 60s7s, 80s, Greg's dad was there and then Greg grew up in the division. So we have like I I knew, you know, Greg and I've known Jack and so having like a mentor plus a mentor to the mentor, right? And it's it's been amazing decades of it. Yeah. So it's almost like that coaching tree, that John Wooden coaching tree where you kind of like keep going. But having, you know, mentors like that, you know, Greg kind of brought me in from the lab and what I would say the, you know, product responsibility regulatory group I started in into the more customerf facing. Yes. And Greg challenged me to get out of my comfort zone, which I I very much appreciate and still do. Greg, he'll call and be like, "What are you doing?" You know, what's going on? How are you pushing yourself? What do you see next? Yeah. Yeah. So, so Greg has has been a fantastic resource and I had lunch with with him and a and the other mentor um earlier this week. So, uh Allan Miller is another one and and Allan I I hope people in the industry know that name because he's been a fantastic resource for 3M and for us. Yeah. Um Allan's the kind of guy that I worked under him and I worked under Greg for years. And Allen's the guy that if you for some reason can't do it, Allan will do it. Yep. Allan is the guy. He's the get it done guy. He's the no excuses. He's the I whatever it takes kind of guy. And he I I appreciate so much of him. The attitude on Allen. He It's not about Allen. It's about the team. It's about It's not I, it's it's we and and so I I've loved that about Allan. I've tried to mimic as much as I can from Allen. But Allan, he grew up in a product engineer role in the division. Amazing. And then came to application engineering. Now he's our application engineering manager and for us that means troubleshooting customer issues. Um being that connection between the plant, the quality team and and our team. Yep. And you know when there's when there's no one else that knows, Allen knows. Alan's going to be the go-to. Yes. So I try to mimic those guys as much as I can because of all the combination. Joe from the sales perspective and the the taking care of people. Yeah. Yeah. And then Alan or Alan and Greg from the hey, how are you doing? How are you being held accountable? And then how are you treating your team? So yeah, I I've got a a wealth of mentors and I am very very fortunate to have so many good people. Um whether it's it's my team now that that push me and I learn from them um and my management team that have had some changes. You kind of mentioned some of the changes which is good. I mean changes is always good. It's great, you world's changing, you know, right? And so, we have to keep up with that. And that's the challenge at 3M is we're a big ship and it's hard to to change quickly, but the world changes very quick. Sure does. So, we need to react and that's our sales team's challenge to say, hey, the customers need this and I know it's going to take that to do it. How do we escalate? How do we pivot faster? Well, I think I mean as as a dealer and as everybody sees I mean obviously 3M changes the world changes but at the same time everything else is changing around us. Right. Right. And just like everything else I know I change every day as far as what I'm doing what I'm striving for and who we're trying to reach out to and what we're trying next. Yeah. I think that's important to have that change and especially with 3M and everything else. I mean, you've got to you've got to have that change internally to try to reach that next level, too. Yeah. Well, and I think our our leadership being newer Yeah. are looking to people that have been in the division 19 years and people like me, but still the younger generation to try to push that barrier, right? And and they're looking for feedback to say, "What do our customers need?" You know, we we see metrics and we see, you know, all of the things to make us profitable and to to, you know, continue our business, but like what else can we do to satisfy our customers? So it's it's a nice challenge and I feel you know entitled to bring the challenges from our customers to problem solvers and and to be a part of that problem solving. So like you said it's you know there's so many challenges but those are opportunities right and I think our customers look to us to to say you need to be my voice. So we need to understand their problem we need to articulate it clearly and we need to bring data and that's how we really resolve you know some of those challenges. What are some things on the dealer side that you want to see more from us to do or more more for us to reach out to or what are some things that we're doing right? Yeah. Well, I I I mean, so much of what you guys helps us, it's it's the feedback loop. It's it's the initial thoughts. It's, you know, when when I think we you did some modifications to our dealer program, our network and we opened some things up and, you know, part of that I think was, you know, people were frustrated by certain rumors of changes and then we got in and and I think as the details came out, people were like, "Oh, it's not it's not what I thought. It's not what I was was frustrated by." So, I think it's it's the clarity. It's the two-way conversations. And I think you guys do a great job of of sharing the feedback and then having a dialogue, right? And so I think that's what we we need to continue to have. And you know, our our goal is to grow, right? Right. Just like your your goal, just like everyone's goal in business, we we need to continue to grow. Um I I'll be honest, I think our portfolio limited us on growth um for for a number of years. Correct. Having new products are going to enable some of that growth. Having better incentives for dealers and and to have that. So, you know, what we're looking for is do we see the growth based on on the new incentives that we have for dealers, the new assets and all that kind of stuff. Are we seeing the growth or what are the challenges if we're not? Is it economy? Is it, you know, supply and demand? Is it, you know, do we have the products on hand? I mean, that's all. So, so I think having that open dialogue, having the consistent feedback, and a lot of that's on us to drive that feedback to, to ask those questions, to make sure that we're aligned. Um, so, so I think that's that's what I hope for. And again, you know, I I'm a little bit more graphics focused, but in in the role that I'm in, I I get to I get to have those conversations and I'm going to be exposed to that. And so, that's what I see. And I I we've got a lot of people that want to visit 3M headquarters right in your backyard and want to, you know, come to see a customer and get that feedback. Absolutely. And so you guys have been fantastic to host to say, "Hey, yeah, we're we're an open book. Come on in. Come on in. Let's talk about what works. Let's talk about what challenges we have and the honesty and the and the constructive criticism. Some people might be scared to hear that. I am not. I think that that is the best way to get, you know, really we have to put it on the line because that's where where we're at today. You know, it might not be where we're at tomorrow, but as of today, that's that's what it is, right? Yeah. So, thank you for that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's exciting to see. I mean, I know we have a lot of great things that have happened with RAM and we have so many exciting things coming up in the future. I know I do, especially in the next couple months. I know we were just talking about some of those things and I am excited for the future. I know all the lunch and learns, all the presentations, all the podcasts coming up, but there are so many things that we haven't even started to evolve around. Yeah. And I know the sky's is the limit as far as where we're going together and what I'm willing to try. I just don't know what exactly all that is yet. Sure. Yeah. That's all it's all evolving, you know, all the different opportunities that are out there. And if anybody has any suggestions on what we should try next, throw it out there. Let's let's try it. Let's go, you know. Yeah. I think we're all ears. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I think a lot of our focus has been doing vehicle color change classes and one-day trainings, you know, through our distributors with with the personal auto products opening up just a little bit more to new distributors. I think they're hosting some training. But I I think if people are looking for additional contact with 3M, don't hesitate, you know, reach out. Um, we we try to follow, you know, our 3M Films channel on on social media has been way more active the last year and a half. We uh we made an investment in in a guy named uh Patrick Brown. Yes. And I tell you, the guy's amazing. He he's doing great things. He's filming video. You probably see me and a few others at trade shows talking about products, having some fun, and you know, it's people that kind of reach out out of the woodwork to say, "Oh, you're you're YouTube famous now." I'm like, "Yeah, yeah." Well, it's funny because when we start talking social media, I think I'm on social media. Let's let's go there. I'm there. Well, and people start to say, "Hey, you know, you're doing a lot." I'm like, "Yeah, but to be honest with you, like whether or not you see me, you're noticing me 100%. Whether you like it or you don't, you're still seeing me. So, you're noticing me. Whether it's good or bad, it's there. Um, but at the end of the day, I'm trying new things, right? I you you have to be that person. You have to try new things. Whether it's good, it's bad. Podcast, social media is there right now. It might not be there in the future. Lunch and learns work. There's so many different things that you have to be willing to try because what works today might not work tomorrow. You know, AI is going to be there in the future. That might take over a lot of different things, which it already is, right? Leads. Yeah. You have to be willing to take it all in and do it because if you don't take it for what it is today, who knows what will be there in the future. Right. Right. No. And and and I think if I look at um 3M as a whole, that was not our strong suit. Right. Pivoting quickly, doing social media, staying on trend. You do a very good job. That's not that's not our focus. I know. I know. But it's Yeah, it's it's tough and and it's it's one of those things that And it takes time. It does everything to to invest in someone to really kind of be an expert in that for 3M. Um that was a change for us and I think they've done a great job Pat and his team. They have they've really taken a big step for it. Yeah. And so I think that's the challenge is to to continue to leverage those new and exciting things like like what you're doing with architectural and and lunch and learns. Um and so our team is trying to get out there. We're we're trying to be a little bit more customer, you know, focused and and expose the trade shows. I mean, trying to find the graphics customers, trying to find all the different all the different customers, right? You know, just being omniresent really. Yeah. Yeah. But it's fun. It is. And it has to be genuine and and that's what I think. And every day is something different, right? Yeah. So, so you know, put yourself out there and and you know, with with a genuine attitude, a willingness to learn. Yeah. That's it. I love it. So, we've talked family, we've talked work. Yeah. What is your favorite thing outside of work to do? Oh man, that's a good question. Um, and and kind of gets back to my days in Duth, but uh last week my son and I did the Lake Superior Circle Tour. Very cool. So, we drove all the way around Lake Superior. It was a long week um with my 10-year-old. Yeah. But it's it's, you know, camping, it's getting outdoors, it's it's, you know, having some fun, getting that vitamin D. You know, I love to golf and and I think we share a little passion there. I'm not I'm not Yeah. Wait, wait, what? I'm not I'm not a good golfer. So, I think the passion is it's being outside, right? It's being outside. It's it's connecting with new people and having that fun. So, yeah, that's the kind of fun stuff, you know, and I think, you know, to my wife, she was like, "Wait, you're going to drive, you know, 4 and a half hours every day and stop and, you know, camp or hotel?" And I was like, "Yes, that sounds incredible." Adventure. Yes. Right. Yeah. Does your son like to do that kind of stuff? Obviously, he's getting more into it and all that stuff, fishing and all of all of that. Yeah, absolutely. And and it's going to be a tough thing because, you know, it's soccer and basketball and sports, but like whenever we have a down minute, let's go do something random road trip. Let's go hit the road and go. Yes. And some of that might be me. You know, I've instilled that in my kids. Like 150% I know. I not long ago I took my kids on a random road trip to Colorado. I'm like, "Oh, wow. Two 16-year-old boys and myself. I'm like, let's go." Yeah. Yeah, let's do it. Like, let's let's go. We're going to just go somewhere random and let's do it. Yeah. But it's that bonding time, right? It's the time in the car when maybe they're away from a device and you can actually try something new. Put down the phone. We're just going to go create memories. You want to see some moose when we might not see moose, but we're going to see some elk. Let's go. You know, let's Yeah. Yeah. Cuz you know, you're never going to get that time back, right? And it's making memories like we're going to go somewhere. I don't know where, but let's just go. Yeah. Yeah. If we're gonna go somewhere, I'm gonna bring probably bring my golf clubs. Sure, why not? More than likely, why not? Yeah. But yeah. Yeah. And a lot of times, I mean, it's funny because we talk golf, we talk work, and they always usually tend to collaborate together for me. Like a lot of times work and golf, you get a lot done on the golf course, too. I 100% agree. You know, I think when you find a passion that maybe your customers share or at least are are kind of, you know, starting to share, whether it's golf, whether it's, you know, sports or anything like that, you're going to find a way to talk about work. Absolutely. Well, I talk about work wherever I go. My work is like my life. I'm no matter what I do, I'm like, "Hey, did you know that we do window? Hey, did you know some I'm like, okay, I've got to stop the whole work thing, but that's what I do. I'm there and I nerd out about it. I I I still think it's a cool business, you know, and maybe that's, you know, maybe that's just me because I've been, you know, drinking the Kool-Aid, but, you know, it's it's still a fun business. It's still a growing business and, you know, I still like it. So, if you still like it, why not talk about it? There's someone that's outside with a lettered up truck outside. I'll be like, "Hey, did you know that sun control?" And here's my little elevator speech. I'm like, "Okay, I'm outside work. I'm outside with my neighbors and I'm giving them an elevator speech. I'm like, I've got to stop." You can't just have a normal conversation with the neighbors. We're good. I know. But it's fun. I mean, that's that's what you do, right? Uh, what's your favorite quote? Oh, that's a that's a tough one. Yeah. Ah, man. I um I don't know if I have a favorite quote. There was one that I had kept on my phone for years and it was something by uh I think it was by Abraham Lincoln and it was it was a a passionate quote about like something that he was doing you know during the Emancipation Proclamation and it was it I I forget the wording but it it stuck with me. It was one of those things that kind of like like oh my goodness like remember this kind of thing every day. Yep. Yeah. I And I'll have to I'll have to think about that as I leave. You know, like just to like just send it to me later. You'll be like, "Okay, here's his favorite quote. Okay, now I know." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It'll come back to you when you're driving and be like, "Okay, now I remember." Yeah. Yeah. Like word for word. Just random time like be in your car and be like, "Okay, now I know. Why didn't I remember that then?" Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Any trips planned in the future? Um work trips so far. I think I'm booked out the next like three weeks. It was It was such a fun week last week to kind of have a a fun trip. Um, my son's soccer team will be going to North Carolina in October. So, that will be we'll make a little family vacation on that. My wife is a big Duke basketball fan. So, we'll go Yeah. So, we'll go to I think Yeah. We'll go about an hour away and we'll we'll maybe take a little tour of the college campus just for fun. Very good. Yeah. Yep. Cool. Cool. I know with I was the last couple days I've been planning all my work stuff and I think I'm out till October right now. Insane. I know in November I was in 23 states in a month and I'm getting probably there again. It's it's it's exciting. Like I love it. Everybody's like, "Do you slow down?" I'm like, "What's slowing down?" Like why? You got to keep that flow going. Yeah. I'm excited for it. Like there's so many exciting things coming. And I can't wait to share with everybody what's coming and all the exciting things that we have collaborating with 3M and everything else. Let's roll. Right. I love it. Yeah. I love it. Well, we're super excited to have you on and can't wait to let everybody see what's coming up in the future. And we had something that we received what, two weeks ago, a 2024 marketing award that we were super excited to have. Yeah. I don't want to just blow past that. You guys, I feel like you've won a lot of awards. We have. So, congratulations. You guys are are rock stars, right? Yeah. We've had national dealer, Midwest dealers, marketing awards. Very exciting. Yeah. Well, congratulations and thanks again for your business. Thanks for for doing what you do for 3M. We really appreciate and we appreciate having you on and can't wait to see where you're going in the future and everybody else with 3M. And I'll have to stop by your stomping ground soon. Please do. Yes. Great. Thank you again. Thank you. [Music]