Storm Damage Claims, Competitive Golf, and Fueling Your Body | Kirk White, Prevail Claims #073

Hey everyone, it's Karissa from Shining Light on Minnesota. I'm very excited. I have Kirk White with us today from Prevail Claims. Welcome Kirk. Thank you for having me. You bet. So, let's start and tell all our view viewers about Prevail Claims. So, what we are is we are a third party claims um administration company that helps contractors. So, in light of what we do after a storm, you have people knocking on your door, which a lot of people are like, "Oh, got door knockers." Those are contractors that are coming out, you know, inspecting damages and everything after a storm. So, what we do is we ensure that the insurance companies are paying accordingly for what you have currently on your your home because you'd like to get paid for what you paid for previously and what you have insured. Um, so we do that as a service to contractors. That not only helps contractors, but also helps the homeowners because we all know in this industry that insurance companies aren't known for paying, you know, what they're supposed to be paying, correct? They'll send somebody out and like, "Oh, this is what it's going to cost." And normally can be 30 to 40% of what it should be. Well, we all know in light of all the storms, insurance companies always like to say, "Hey, you don't have this, you don't have that, or you don't have your receipts, or you're not covered for this." Yeah. And on the other side of it, there are a lot of times when you're out there, a lot of companies that are saying, "Hey, I'm going to come knocking on your door." There's a lot of not so great claim companies out there, too. So, you want to get that reputable company that's out there that has been around for a long time, too. Exactly. Yeah. So, I've been in this industry now since well, 2008. Um, and I started as working for a contractor doing the sales, the doortodoor, customer service, and meeting with all the insurance adjusters and taking the project from start to finish. Yeah. And I continued on that and then worked for a company a buddy of mine's company and I did more of like the production supplementing side of it and I was like really you know I really like the estimating side of it. Before when I did sales I had to do our own supplementing like we didn't have the the inoff staff and then you know over the years companies have grown to like hey we can scale our businesses to where we can have these people on staff. So, I did that for a good four years with the company, but it just got tired of being the hardest worker in the room and like building somebody else's business to where I was like, you know what, there's a lot of contractors that are not only in the state of Minnesota, but y all across the nation that could benefit from these services that don't have the budget to pay somebody to be on staff. So I had the idea, started a company and right away started getting, you know, interest and clients and everything, which is nice because you don't have that cap either, but you know both sides of it. Exactly. And in Minnesota, I mean, it's nice because you have the background, you have the establishment, but you also know, hey, we have all those seasons. Hey, I know we get all the hail, but we also get the rain. We get all we get all the storm damage. Mhm. And you know the contractors, you know, you start to build that rapport with a lot of people and you know the reputation. People start to know you as a person. Yeah. You have a lot of drive too. I mean I know I know that as a person. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that that's the good thing is like knowing um what the insurance companies are looking for, but also helping contractors. There's a lot of contractors that are starting off and they they just they don't have a process in place, right, on how to document the claim properly or what they should be looking for. And that's why we also offer like in-house training. Like we'll go there and we'll help guys because we've been on the side of the contractors. We know exactly what the insurance companies are looking for. But we also know, you know, what photos that we need as, you know, supplementers and estimators to prove to the insurance company why this needs to be added. Because I I always say it to to a lot of the contractors like the insurance companies aren't going to pay for what you feel you deserve, right? They're going to pay for what you can prove, right? So that's what we like to train contractors in doing is documenting that claim properly. What are some of the things that they're looking for? I mean, the sky's is the limit, right? There's a long long list of photos. Um, typically what we get, and I I have to teach this a lot, is we'll get a a roof or a claim from a contractor that's like a roof only. Y and we'll have 20 pictures of up close hail hits. Well, the roof was already totaled by the insurance carrier, right? I don't have any overviews or anything to see if they've missed anything. if they missed any vents or turtles or, you know, pipe jacks, if they missed valley metal, if they're not, you know, accounting for the the valley metal properly. So, we try to teach them to get the overview photos of a roof. Yep. But also at tear off because there's a lot of insurance companies, there's a lot of facets that go into roofing as in like starter shingles. Minnesota, Midwest, we have ice and water shield because we get ice dam buildup. Yep. A lot of carriers like to say, "Well, this is what we're going to pay." Like we use this payoff. This is Yeah. This is what we're going to pay for, let's say, the ice and water shield. Like we use our Pythagoreum theorem to say, but it's not accounting for the exact six feet, the square footage. Yeah. It's not counting for getting 24 in inside of of the interior wall line, which is code. Yep. and we go after that. But a lot of them require that you get pre-existing photos at tear off to make sure that it was what was pre-existing. Otherwise, they're not going to be paying for that. And then contractors that's coming out of the job cost because you're installing that to code, right? But the insurance carriers aren't going to pay for it. So, there's a lot of different um accessories too that just not only for roofing, but for siding. Yes. That there's a lot of light blocks. You got to have electricians come out and detach and reset the lights. outlets, you know, your meter, your meter base. There's just a lot of stuff that a lot of the guys don't like to get photos of. Like they'll take a couple photos and Right. and call it good and think, "Okay, that's going to cover it all." Right. But you missed the You missed all of the turtle lines. You missed all the other stuff. Yes. Yeah. And our average, like we have a a CRM that we track. So each one of our claims we work, our average is we're adding $5,400 per claim. Yep. So the insurance company comes out, they write an estimate. We're adding normally on average $5,400 to that claim. And that's across all of our companies that we work nationwide. Yeah. And that's just because of like the photos that we're requesting and that help us fight that to the insurance company versus like if you don't get me the photos, they're not going to come back, right? And they're going to deny it. Sorry. It is what it is. Exactly. Yeah. And we we've had that too where we're like, "Oh, no. These photos were never never submitted, never never submitted, never taken." And then there's just nothing I can do. Right. because that's what the insurance company's requiring. So, we try to train on that. So, we have a lot of different documents that we share with the the contractors, but we also like to do the in the in-house training. And if in the summer months, like when we meet with our clients, like we like to go out in the field, like hopefully somebody has a project or something that they already have ready to go. So, we go out and actually do hands-on training to show guys what actually they're in pre-exist not pre-existing, but when it's when it's there in motion after the damage. Yeah. Yeah. How many times have you seen something where people have tried to say, "Hey, this happened during the storm, but you know, it was actually pre-existing." That happens a lot. Yeah. Um, and that's why the photo documentation is so good. So, when I was running production at another company, I required as a production manager, I required guys to get 50 photos minimum, and it's 50 quality photos walking around the house because we're doing major construction on a home, right? How many times have you looked at your roof in the last year? None. Exactly. I mean, unless I'm out there like putting lights on or something like that, you know, or something or even walking around the house. Nobody nobody does that until you do major construction. And there's come across a couple times where there was damages from like 20 years ago or something like that like somebody hit the garage door with the snowblower or somebody cracked the window or the weed whip with the siding. Yep. And we have photos of that and all the photos in the CRM are timestamped from before we came out and didn't work or someone moves and the inspections done or something. Exactly. So that helps with, you know, fighting against that cuz again, homeowners like they never saw it. They don't walk around their home, but if you have a photo that shows like, "Hey, this was pre-existing." They're like, "Oh, okay. Yeah, no, we get it." Y um so there's a lot of those a lot of those things that we we like to see um like the 50 photo minimum like we were I was very on top of that like because guys couldn't submit jobs unless they had correct that. And it it's we try to teach a lot of these contractors too is like, hey, like these photos aren't just like for me, right? Like they're to cover you and help help your your production and also your marketing team. Like if you're getting before and after photos like from the road like this is what the house looked like before and then hey look, we just put a new roof and siding on. Like they can use that for marketing. Yep. And I mean the world's full of marketing and social media these days. I don't see why they would. What's caught on camera? It's caught on camera. There's nothing you can do about it. I mean, we deal a lot with that with melting siding where the siding gets melted. Is it coming from your windows or coming from your neighbor's window? You know, it's one of those things that happens. It is what it is. Yes. Yeah. The bounce bounce back. Yeah, we've had that. And then like the grill, too. Like somebody's Is it coming from the grill? Is it melting from the grill? No, it's coming from your neighbor's window. The sun hits the window and melts. Bounces off and it's just cooking. It burns the grass. Does what it does. We can put film on the outside of the window to make it not happen, but it has to be in your neighbor's window, not yours. I'm sorry, but that happens. Yeah. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's it's interesting to see how how it all happens. And, you know, social media is there. Cameras are there, things happen. You know, the wind blows certain ways. Exactly. There's ways to tell how it happens. What do you think? You know, obviously storms happen, it gets exciting cuz when hail happens, you know, it's it gets exciting for you. It's like, great, there's a storm coming. And most people are like, no. I'm like, "Yeah, there's hail coming in." I know. I'll text Betsy and be like, "Hey, did you see that hail?" She's like, "Yeah, Kirk's up. Like, let's let's go." I'm excited. I'm like, "Yeah, that's that's awesome." What have been some of the bigger storms that you've seen that have come through lately? Um, just recently in September, I mean, we've been pretty light on storms in the state of Minnesota for the last couple of years, but recently, um, end of September 921, we had a storm come across the Minnetonka Weisetta area all the way through Egan. So, like that south metro. Yep. to the east metro area and there was big hail. Yeah. Widespread damage. Um we're handling a bunch of claims. But it's kind of funny because of the the sense of humor that you know God has is like hey you know I understand that these guys are starving. We're looking for work. Y we're going to give you a hail stom at the end of September. So a lot of guys they went out. They have projects lined up and then boom. They're like, "We're gonna get it started right after, you know, Thanksgiving because people are traveling for Thanksgiving." And we get the most amount of snow that we've had in the month of December. Just kidding. Yeah. Yeah. So, now everything's getting a little pushed back till till spring. And that's fine, but like there's a lot of homes that have damaged, right? Like this is it's a widespread storm. And like other states, they've had um we work in Oaklair um from the storm last May. And I mean that was the biggest storm they've had in 20 years. So a lot of people are confused as to like what they do. And and it it's it's funny cuz a lot of people are like, "Well, these stormchasers are coming to town, right?" And I get it. I work with clients in Oaklair. Like there's a lot of competition in this industry. Um but when you get a storm that big, that size, it's going to bring in competition. It will. Yes. All the time. But like just stick to, you know, people that you know and you can trust and people that actually know and have been around. Yes. And referrals. Um not people that are coming in from Albuquerque, New Mexico that don't know. And Exactly. Yeah. Haven't been around. There's always an easier way with the internet. There's always an easier way to to verify if the contractors are good. Look them up on Google. Do they have a license? Do they have they better business reviews? Yeah. And that's something that I push all the time. And like they you get all the horror stories that the news pushes as soon as a hail stom hits like don't sign a contract with any contractor, you know, don't give them any money. And there's always one person that gives mouth. Yeah. There's always the people that give them the money. Yes. Right up front. And that's not something like No, we understand that, you know, you're getting a check from the insurance company and they require a down payment. Yes. Pay a down payment. Absolutely. But don't just like before they do, you know, the inspection, let's write a check, hand it out the door and go. Yep. Yeah. Like, oh yeah, this one's going to get approved, so yeah, let's just write a check and let them take off. But like the storms in Minnesota, they they they tend to be um more inviting to the out of state contractors just because not only is Minnesota pricing a little bit higher than other places because we require more. We require ice and water shield, you know, on eaves and valleys just because of the the seasons that we get here. But everybody seems to want to flock here because they know when it storm hits there's widespread damage, right? And like homes are so close together. It's not like a rural area where it's like house here, you know, a couple miles country like metro hit. Yeah. Well, and we're also able to be insured. I mean, you look at Florida and places there or not Florida, but yeah. I mean, Florida, there's a lot of places in Florida that you can't even be insured anymore. No. I mean, we have locations in Florida that no matter what happens, you can't get insured. I mean, I've I've worked a hurricane in New Orleans in 2013, and it's it's sad because a lot of these these homeowners, they did get insurance. Y, but their percentage deductibles of their home value doesn't cover it. It doesn't cover it ever. And I know Minnesota's switching to more of like lower percentage deductibles. um they're getting rid of like the $500 to $1,000 deductibles on your home, right, policies to now percentage. Like on our own home, yeah, we have a percentage. Um it's a lower percentage, but we've worked areas that have 5 to 10% of a home value of a $600,000 house and they have a $25,000 roof. So, it's like it's like, I'm sorry, but yes, we'll write you a retail bid, and there's a way to go about that, but this is the way that we can ensure that you still get covered is getting it replaced. Yes. So you work at Prevail Claims. You have a couple people that work underneath you or work with you. What are their roles and what do they do? So they manage their own clients. So they do client relations. So they go and get their own um customers, their own contractors and they do all their claims handling for their clients and all the training um we try to do together. Yep. Um so that's basically what they do. And what areas do they cover? the same areas. Same areas. Like we we try to push um nationwide just because we like to work year round. Absolutely. Well, and you have to I mean you have Arizona, you have all the other states. There's so many areas to cover. So why wouldn't you constantly getting hit and there's a lot of contractors in in every states and we have you know we have clients in Arizona, we have clients in Texas and like there's customers everywhere. Everywhere. Yeah. And there there's people that you know they don't know how to navigate the claim properly. So, a lot of the clients that we've been working with in in Texas, they're they're newer to the storm game. And it's great because I get to come in and be like, "Hey, this is the way that, you know, things should go. Here's a process. Let's let's follow this process." Versus somebody that has been, you know, in business for a long time. Like, hey, this is the way we run things. You know, we're going to turn and burn jobs. And it's like, well, no, let's let's take a little more time. Let's take a little time with with this one. and you know, make sure that you guys are getting the the fair market value for the claim rather than just turning and burning right claims, which a lot of companies end up doing. They don't have anybody like supplementing it. Um they're more chasing volume than quality. Yep. And and why wouldn't you want to slow it down and go through the process the correct way than just let's get it in and get out the door and give me your money. Exactly. you know, and like they're doing a dis they're dissatisfying um their customers, right? Like the homeowner, like you know that they have a high quality product on their home. Correct. You got to fight for that, right? And if if you don't want to fight for it, then why aren't they just dealing with the insurance company themselves? Exactly. And not getting what they want and losing out. I mean, there are main seven main factors to the insurance company not getting what they want. I mean, it's not getting the money, not having the receipts. I mean, there's so many different factors to not getting Yeah. It what they want. A lot of the times when I' i've dealt with customers, they're like, "Oh, no." Like my agent, we were really good friends, he'll take care of me. It It's not your agent. No. Like your agent doesn't have a say in it, right? At all. No. It's the insurance adjusters. It's the desk adjusters, right? Like I'm not submitting anything. They can get on the roof and not see something and say, "Hey, you don't have your receipt. You don't have the coverage." or I was up there and I didn't see it or I didn't see, you know, the vents didn't have what they needed or the shingles weren't laid the right way or whatever it may be. You know, just and that's that's been like the the data that's been coming out over the years is that 40% of every claims no matter what, right? Denied, right? There's there's no explanation as to why why took too long, wasn't done right, you know, it's just whatever it is. They're like, "Well, there's not enough up there. Like, we we're just not seeing it." And then it's denied. or they'll send somebody out to take pictures and after they take pictures, it's just too long of a process. The person gives up too a lot of times too. Yeah. And that's that's why we're here for these contractors too because there's a lot of contractors are like, "Oh, hey, this one's denied. Let's pass it under the roof." Yep. Let's just pass on it, you know, we'll visit it, you know, later on down the line if they get another storm when they could be walking away from a full replacement. they just and the roof starts leaking and then they're just not educated on it to where like there is a way to get a reinspection and a second set of eyes. But even if it comes to a point of where you feel that it should be approved, uh we have partners that we partner with that are public adjusters that also do appraisals, that's another route to go if you feel that it should be an approval versus a denial. And we educate them as well on like, hey, you know, we'll even meet them out on site like, hey, this one should be approved. Like, this is definitely a slam dunk if you were to go to appraisal versus like if it's very spotty, marginal, we'll see. It's not something we don't want to give, you know, homeowners like, "Do I have to put $50,000 back into my roof to see if it's We don't want to give false hope um to homeowners, but also like that's why a lot of contractors get good reputations. Like they would come out, they inspect the damage like Yeah. You guys, it's marginal at best. Like I wouldn't file a claim. Well, insurance is changing, too. I mean, that's a big thing that's people don't know. Like every day insurance is changing. Yes. and you have to keep going back to your insurance company and checking to see, hey, don't just sit there and think that it's staying the same. So, one of the things that has been changing over the years is that siding sighting matching in the state of Minnesota, right? Normally, you have to have an endorsement on your policy. A lot of people don't like to talk to their agents about it, right? Because it costs anywhere from $200 to $300 extra a year. Yep. And then they're like, "Well, no, I want to save on my premium." So then they don't have that coverage, right? And then a storm comes through. Yep. Their siding's discontinued. Yep. You get one wall of siding approved, right? Now you're going to have mismatch. So now you're devaluing your home. Tan and taupe. And guess what? Yep. Exactly. And there the and siding companies, they're smart about this. They change their color palettes every other year. every other year. Every other year it seems like they're changing something palettes and colors and whole different siding companies. So, yes. Yes. Or they're just not even making the product anymore. Um because it wasn't a high-end product that was selling for them. So, they're just like, "Oh, we're just not going to make it anymore." But now the homeowner stuck at do I have one side of siding that's mismatched or do I pay out of pocket for the other get the whole thing done rather than you know that $300 a year is looking a little bit better than having to pay $25,000 for a new sighting job. So we'll just have it completely different on that whole side. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what like a lot of um contractors and a lot of stuff that I want to do too is like educate homeowners too to like hey be checking with your agents to make sure that you have this this coverage. Um because a lot of roof and siding in the state of Minnesota, they're older, they're discontinued, products are not made anymore. Just making sure that you have a full coverage to if you were ever affected by a storm that you have Yeah. that effect, you know, you're not going to have to choose between pick and choose the colors, especially if you have a different color. It's one of those random ones. Yeah. Yeah. You're not going to have to choose like, oh, am I doing one side of siding and kind of like devaluing my home or am I going to have to pay out of pocket the amount to replace the full siding? Yes. Yep. And a lot of times people just don't stay up on their policy. They just don't what they don't know. They don't care. They don't No. Nope. It's just whatever. Yes. And it just like auto they just like auto renews. Like they don't read through their policy. Oh, my my insurance agents, my friend, will just let them keep doing what they've been doing for the last 20 years. It's all good. They've got them handled. They They have They have no say in it. Like the policy changes. They just sign it. You sign it. We're good. Yep. Yep. So, you've been going to Arizona the last few years, which I don't blame you. You've been playing some golf down there, too. Let's tell everybody a little bit about the golf game. I play a lot of play a lot of golf. Um so, this this year is going to be a little different, though. We're going to probably take multiple trips down to Arizona. Um, just with everything that we have going on in life, you've had a big year. Yes. Marriage, buying a house, got a dog. Got a dog. Did he get a dog? That's the big thing, right? And that that that made it a lot harder. Sorry, Betsy. Betsy the marriage. That's the big thing, too. Yeah. And that's that's the hardest thing to find, not only short-term housing down there, but having them allow a pet. And everybody's like, "Well, why don't you check out like Airbnbs and, you know, VBOs?" I'm just like, you can find them down there. You can find them, but having the pet come down, too. Yeah. the pet like not a lot of them. A lot of them allow pets. Well, before it was like the six month thing and now the three month thing is a little bit different. Yeah. Yeah. And that that happens just with like life this year. Like next year it'll probably back to six six months. No no no issues. Y but looking for Airbnbs to try to find you know pet friendly ones and then you're looking at like one one month is anywhere from $6 to $10,000 and just like we'll stay here. We'll just do some random trips. We'll do trips. Yeah, we'll do we got friends down there. We can we can Yeah, we can just go take a week trip and go do some golfing. Um but I picked up golf in 2015. Yes. Um and I didn't have golf. I was hockey player, played all played football, played baseball, picked up golf and got addicted. Golf is an addiction. Trust me. Got addicted so quickly. I played shot my first round in the 80s and everybody's like, "Oh, that's really good." And I'm just like, "No, it's not. It's horrible." Because I see it on TV and these guys are in the 70s, they're in the 60s, right? So then I started, you know, practicing and competing. And that first amateur qualifier that I stood on the tea and I couldn't get myself to stop shaking. I did not know what was going on. It's adrenaline. It's like, "Oh my god, like what am I doing?" I feel like I played sports on some of the highest levels. Like what is going on? Like why am I this this shaking? That first te. It's like, "Oh my god, my heart's going." Yep. Yeah. So then I got addicted to that and I was just like, "Okay, I got addicted to I got the adrenaline on the first te. I've got to get this back." Competing and um the Arizona stuff definitely did help the golf game cuz I could play year round and practice outside year round. Um now it's like indoors. Wait, now you live here in the winter time? Yeah. Why do we live here? Exact. Exactly. Well, like the indoor thing is like great like to get swings and like that's what I'm definitely doing this winter is breaking down the swing getting the ball striking more the the consistency. It's mine mine isn't the speed like um mine is too Bessie's training the speed consistency getting the ball closer to the hole to have more birdie opportunities. Um, like I can hit my iron's great, but my proximity to the hole has been so far away. So, it's like, okay, I'm not making enough birdies that alleviate some of the bogeies that happen, right? Um, in around, but it it was it's so much better to hit outdoors because you could see the ball flight, right? You can see, okay, this is what I'm doing. Simulator is not the same. No, cuz you hit it and it stops in the screen and then it picks up. Great. It says it's going here. It says it's picking up the spin correct. You see the RPMs and you see Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And like you can read into a lot of the data and everything that goes into that, but it's still it's not up in the air. It's not doing what it says it's doing. No. No. It's like, oh, okay. Like that one didn't draw that much. And then you go outside and you're hitting a hook and you're like, wait a second. And it says it's spinning, but is it really? Yeah. Yep. Yeah. So, um I've been competing in that um a lot of the amateur stuff over the years, US Open qualifiers, US midams. I would say that the best thing that I've done is um in the US Open qualifier two years ago now. I kind of stumbled coming in but like tied in like the last spot. Nice. Lost in the playoff um which kind of sucked um to go to final qualifying for it. But then just always been on that cusp, right? And trying to get better and like it's never my swing. Mm-m. It's always my mental game, right? Like my mental game with golf is horrible. Well, people even say that to me. I mean, I know I'm old. I'm And they're like, "Why are you still trying to get the speed?" I'm like, "Why wouldn't I?" Cuz it's it's for me. Like, exactly. No matter what No matter how old I am, I'm always going to be trying to get better. No matter what I'm doing, it's always for me. Not for anybody else, but for me. No matter what I'm doing, it's always just just the mental part of it. And I'll always be out there just trying to get it better for me. Exactly. It's it's one of those things you'll be I'll be doing the rest of my life and just still trying to com compete for myself and doing what I'm doing and get out there and do it. It's the grind of it. That's the thing. It's like it's not just like competing in tournaments, but it's just like competing with yourself, but like you and Mark, I'm sure you guys have little friendly competitions. Me and Betsy do, you know, every Saturday we have our little matches for who buys dinner. And not to brag, but I've been on a winning streak for the last eight months. Um, she's listening and watching right now. I'm sure she'll be like, "Hey, uh-uh." Nope. Not anymore. I think I've lost once to her and it's just cuz I had a bad day. Well, I know she was just saying the other day, she's like, "Yeah, people ask me why I'm trying to get better with my drives." She's like, "Look at his like you've got to you've got to keep it going." That's That's the thing. It's like I can I can hit the ball very far. Yeah. But again, then I'll have like a wedge or like a a short iron coming in, but my proximity to the hole is not good, right? my putting is good, but like or it's like you have a great drive and then your next shot's not good and then it's like come on D. I'm like you can do better than this. What are you doing better than this? And for me like I want to be able to compete at, you know, some of the highest levels and I'm going to keep pushing myself to get there cuz everybody, you know, they're chasing, you know, the the tour the Trackman has like the tour averages and and I'm above averages on all those and I'm just like, where's where's my disconnect? What am I missing? Yeah. Yeah. Like if I'm better than tour average, it's like where's my disconnect at? And it's all on my mental side of the game because I'll hit I'll hit one bad shot and then there goes it's toast. Then I start getting too aggressive instead of, you know, sticking to a game plan. Like I'm swinging too hard now. It's going a little left or I'm doing something and like a come to a par five like okay hey I just gave one back to the field. I need a birdie. Yes. And in my mind it's like well I can get an eagle. Yeah, I can do this. I'm gonna make this in one. Forget the two. And then what do you do? You hit a great drive. You're like, "Okay, I'm going for this in two." Well, then you either leave yourself in a bunker or like at our course there's water everywhere. Yeah. I'm going to spin this over instead of chipping it back. Yeah. Or you leave it in the tall fescue and then now you're scrambling to save par and it's like, okay, instead of, you know, getting one. Yeah. laying up a wedge like a 80 to 90 yard to give myself a good opportunity for a birdie. I'm chasing the eagle and now I'm trying to save a Well, it's like everybody on 18. It's like I'm going to I'm going to cut this on too. I'm like I'm going up and I'm going to birdie it and you can go on too. Like we'll we'll birdie or Yeah. 18 is is it's funny. Yeah. Um because I will always have like either a hybrid or kind of like a a long iron in Y. But coming over that water, I think it's like an endless pit. I think I think it adds like 10 yards. It does. No question. And I think even the tour guys have struggled with that. I mean, we all saw Jake Nap flagged it. He club twirled Y coming down the three and it landed five yards short into the water. Yep. It's like I've got this. I'm like, yep, yep. Good luck. There it is. That's That's what you've got. And I think that's what there I think there's just like an endless pit that's over that because because you always got to add Yeah. Always add that extra club. Extra club. Yep. Um and sometimes I club up too much and then I hit it over that green and that's not Well, and it carries to the right no matter what, too. It's always going to go over to the right and maybe a lot of times into the water over to the right. That's just what it does. And it it's goofy because if you fly it long of let's say they have a right pin. You fly it long to that back part of the green or that over the green. It's very difficult to get up and down. It is. Yeah. Very difficult. You're better just playing it a little to the left and leaving yourself a straight, you know, 100 yard shot in giving yourself a good chance for a bird. Play it left and bring it to the birdie. Yeah. But so yeah, like mental side, I know there's a lot of like different apps and like things that you can do. um me even looking at YouTube videos of like how to combat um the mental side of the golf aspect because me and my coach I've worked with like it's never my swing. It's always just like the mental side of it and like if I'm playing good and then all a sudden a bogey happens, it seems like I get defeated. Mhm. And at that point then I get on this and it's funny because Betsy's dad always he's like, "Yeah, you were too under through five holes and then you bogeied and then you couldn't get off a bogey train for six holes, right?" And that's exactly what happens. Like start, you know, not playing smart, not playing the the game I should be playing and then start getting aggressive. Like I got to make back those bogeies that I made and then that leads to more bogies. Then it's like, okay. See, I used to be the opposite way. Like when I'd hit a bad shot, then I'm like, then I get aggressive. Then I'm like, I know what I'm doing. Like pull myself out of it. And then I start playing better. I'm like I almost need that bad shot to then like click and get out of it. And then I'm start playing good. So I'm like if I have that bad shot on the first hole or two, then it's like the birdie train will come on. So it's like, all right, I want I want to get that bad shot out of the way on the first hole, then it's then it's game on. But if I start playing consistently good or like decent, then I'm like, I'm waiting for that bad shot because I want to get even better. Like I don't know. It's just a weird weird thing that I used to have. But yeah, like even at our home course, I I tend to play a little too aggressively. Um like one one should always be birdie or par for me. Um but whole two. Yeah. Playing from the back teeth from behind the road, it's a it's a very daunting t-shot. It's scary cuz there's nothing like left is OB, left is OB. You have that little strip of fairway, all water, water on the right, and then you hit a great drive. You're in the fairway, you're in the middle of the fairway, and then comes the second daunting task. Yep. Cuz it's either peninsula green. Little peninsula green around. Yep. And that usually is like for me it's either a birdie or a It's a birdie or birdie or bogey. I mean, no matter double for me like Okay. Yep. And then you go to a par five and then you get a little too aggressive on it and you're trying to get back with and that's that either the double back or what you're doing. Exactly. And that's where I need to stop being so just play it safe. Aggressive like like a two putt on two would be be phenomenal. Make it a par and like less stress going into it. We're good. We're good. Let's just do that. And I think that's the mental like my mental side of it. It's It's always been a struggle cuz I get so um I can't think of the word for it, but like everybody is so results driven like like results driven and like you put in all this time and effort into your golf game. You expect yourself to be better. You expect yourself to be so good on it and you have all the shots and then something happens to where you don't hit the shot you want. You get hard on yourself and hard on myself. I do the exact and then it's just like like why do I even try anymore? Like like I'm not even keeping score anymore. I'm just good. I'm just playing now. Exactly. Right. Mark's like, "You're not keeping score." Nope. I'm good. I'm just I'm just playing now. I'm shooting. Like I've I haven't been known to be a club thrower. Like I'm not a club thrower. I've thrown a club once in my life and paid for it because it's down in Arizona. Me and a buddy were playing a Mast's tournament. So it was like, yeah, you play a baseball masters tournament. I He hit a good one. He goes, "Get aggressive." He's like, "I know you can hit it that far. Drive the green." Mhm. Hit it to the front of the green. Rolled all the way over to the fringe, but it was against the rough in the fringe. The ball's kind of hidden. Y. So I was like, "Okay." I was like, "I have to be very delicate with the shot. I'm short-sighted. Y I can't get a putter on it, which I wanted to be able to get a putter on it because it's just easy." And I tried to just pop it up, but the grass down in Arizona, it's not like the rough here. No, I know what it's like. Yeah. Yep. And I bladed it across the green and I immediately looked at him and I I Terrell Hatton two clubs, two hands on the club, tomahawkked it. Yep. Just threw it straight up in the air. Didn't even care where it went and it hit a tree and it completely bent my 60°. So, I'm like, "All right, well, we're not going to be throwing clubs anymore because clubs aren't cheap." Y um they're very expensive. Y So, I I don't know. I got to figure out a better way mentally to I know Tiger was like, you could be mad at the shot for 10 seconds and then it's got to be done. Let it go. It's got to be done with by the time you get to your next shot because you got to think and focus on All right. Got to get to the next one. Yep. And that's something I need to work on, right? It can it can derail my whole round. Yeah. Cuz I mean, I remember I had a golf coach in college when I played and she's like, "Okay, you've got to you've got to take 10 steps, let it go, and then get mad at yourself and say, "Okay, I've got to do better on the next one." And I'm like, she's like, she instilled that so many times in me that like by the time I got to the next shot, I'm like, "If you don't hit the next shot better, then then why are you keeping score and just stop keeping score?" And she's like, "Then if you can't if you can't stop keeping score, then just be done for the round." I'm like, I'm not going to be done. Yeah. With round, what do you mean? She's like, just quit. Then then why are you playing golf? And I'm She's like, so for three rounds, if I couldn't be done playing, she's like, if you're not done playing golf and you can't stop keeping score, then stop playing golf. And I'm like, what do you mean? So she made me for three rounds like do that in particular. Like, I don't want you to play golf ever again. And I'm like, wait, what? She's like, "You're out here playing college golf. You're taking bad shots. You're getting so frustrated that you can't get over a shot." I'm like, "Yeah." She's like, "You're getting mad at yourself." I'm like, "Yeah." She's like, "Stop keeping score." I'm like, "No." She's like, "Stop keeping score." I'm like, "No." She goes, "Then stop playing golf." I'm like, "No, no, I'm not going to stop. I'm not going to stop playing golf." She's like, "You're out here every single day, eight hours a day before before playing golf. You're hitting balls. you're playing three or four rounds of golf a day and you're out here afterwards. I'm like, she's like, stop playing golf. I'm like, no. She goes, then forget about the shot. I'm like, okay, well, that's what I got to do. That's fine. Then that's what I've got to do. I'm like, if you're going to tell me you're my golf coach, you got to tell me I got to stop forgetting about the shot, then that's what I got to do. She's like, yeah. And she's like, I want to have you go talk to this person just about forgetting about the shot. I'm like, all right. So, I went and talked to the person about forgetting about the shot. He's like, why is it so hard for you to forget about the shot? I'm like, cuz it's a bad shot and I don't like having a bad shot. Yeah. Like, who likes having a bad shot? He's like, "You hit it in the water. It was two-stroke penalty." I'm like, "Yeah, cuz it was right there." He's like, "Yeah, so what?" I'm like, "That two-stroke penalty wasn't a fun shot." He's like, "Yeah." He's like, "So, why are you getting so frustrated about it?" I'm like, "Cuz it's a two-stroke penalty and I just dubbed it." He's like, "Just laugh it off." Like, it wasn't funny. Laugh it off. I'm like, "It wasn't funny." Like, he's like, "Just just forget about it." I'm like, "All right." He goes, hit the next shot. Think it was fun. Have fun with who you're with. He's like, "Just have fun with the people you're with." I'm like, "All right." He's like, "So, next time you come out, enjoy the people you're with. Enjoy that you're out here playing golf. Have more fun with the game of golf. You're taking it too seriously." I'm like, I don't know. I've got to start enjoying golf more. cuz that was to the point where I'm like grinding so much that I'm spending like 16 hours a day on the golf course. It's getting to be too much. Like it was wearing me out. Like at that point it was getting to be like every single thing was on my mind. Every single shot was way too much. I'm like all right maybe it is just a little bit too much. Like it's not quite fun anymore. I'm just going to come out with the people I want to golf with. Have some fun. Enjoy it. forget about it. Just play golf the way it's supposed to be. Laugh it off and have some fun. So that's what I started doing and it got to be a little bit more fun. Yeah, cuz it it is like you get so hard on yourself and you get so frustrated that you don't even know it, but like it's not fun to be around. It wasn't fun. It's not fun to be around. And like people are like, "Why is he so angry all the time?" Like I'm not angry. I'm just I'm trying to be focused and I'm trying to I'm winning the tournaments. I'm going to nationals. I'm doing the things I should be doing. Like, I'm scoring great. I'm doing the things, but I'm mad at myself. Like, why? How can I not be? Like, I'm not throwing the clubs, but I'm angry because I hit a bad shot. Like, and then you start getting in your own head and you're like, what am I doing wrong? Every single like I knew every degree. I knew every loft. I knew every single thing I was doing. I could draw it. I could fade. I could spin it. I could do everything. But I was angry. Exactly. Exactly. And and that's the funny thing, too, is like when I started working with my coach um down in Arizona, and a lot of people don't know this, but I had hip surgery when I was five. So, my left leg is 3/4 inches shorter than my right leg. So, I usually wear a lift in my shoe. If I don't have my lift in my shoe, I kind of got that weird side bend. Yep. Which is not good because I have a steeper attack angle on the ball. And I've always had a really steep attack angle. Yeah, that is not good when you start chunking shots and you're like, "Okay, now I know what I'm doing." And it's not something that you can see, but you get used to it. Like that's what you do. Everybody has their own. So, that was one of the things that we were were working on um getting that attack angle more shallow but not as deep because I was taking these deep divots and they're like, "Why do you take such deep divots?" Well, because all my weight Because all my weight there from that side and like and I just had didn't know that over the years because I've never really had it checked out like a chiropractor that I went with and he's like, "Hey, let's let's you know, let's check this out." Like cuz with your Was that from baseball too? I mean like that affected you in baseball too or not so much? Not so much in baseball um or other sports. I just didn't know with your swing if that was stepping into it different too. No, but mostly like golf cuz you're trying to get to that left side. Yeah. And when you come down that attack angle there, it's like here like you're 3/4 in rather than being level with your pelvis. My pelvis was tilted this way towards the ground. I'm like, "Oh, okay." So, we we worked on getting that fixed and like the ball striking got a lot better. Um, but it's just something I didn't know and I was getting so frustrated when I started golfing. Like, why why am I doing this? Why am I taking these big divots? Yeah. Like, why am I like chunking shots that I I know that I can hit behind it? Yeah. Like why is like my driver beforehand like I'd hit down on it. Yeah. I'm hitting five inches behind it and I should be hitting up on it. Yeah. I was like I don't I didn't understand. Um and the chiropractor we took um pictures and he's like did you know this? I'm just like I had hip surgery. I knew that I had back surgery. Hip surgery. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like well he's like what we need to do is we need to put a lift in your shoe so it levels your pelvis out. And then things started clicking. It started getting better. Um, but like the coach, like my coach helped me see things that I don't normally see, right, at all. Like I felt like everything was good, but like I've always played my best golf like after a lesson with him. Like after meeting with him like, "Hey, this is what I want you to go work on. I would go and grind it right after we worked. I would grind it for hours and then I play some of my best golf." Yep. Um, then you get back to your old swing and you kind of go back to all that. It's like that's what I even just did. I was working for the last 3 weeks on changing some stuff and then I go back to my old swing. I'm like, "Nope, I'm going back to my old swing." Like, that's what I know and that's the distance I can have. Why am I working on mechanics? Like, what am I changing after 35 years of golf and I can hit the ball further with my old swing? And that's like I think I the trap that I fell into was like I would go back to the old swing. Yeah. But then I'd create the same mistakes. So, I'm change I'm kind of going in between both of them right now cuz I'm hitting it further. I'm go I'm going I'm doing both right now. Making some good changes, but I'm adding some stuff to it. Fine tuning it. Yeah. So, like my old swing, it was not it was not working um at all. I wasn't I'm not consistent, but I'm putting some stuff with it. Still hitting the ball a lot further, but I'm making it more consistent. So, yeah. And that was my thing is like the consistency. So, now it's like, okay, we're working on this and like this winter. Um, you know, yeah, we're going to take our trips down to Arizona, but like with TPC having that, like I'm going to try to be in there at least an hour a day. Yeah. And a lot of people go in there and they use it to play simulator golf. No, I'm not simulator. No, I'm just on the range just working on my grind. Exactly. I'm going to go in there like I look at my my videos that we I had for my coach on our app like, "Okay, this is what I was working on. This is what I'm going to work on today." I don't play any rounds of golf. I'm just straight grinding. Like that's all I'm doing. Betsy and I will we'll play on like a round on Saturday because we're both there together. So it's like okay this is a little fun friendly. Everybody's like, "Are you playing rounds?" I'm like, "No, I'm grinding." I don't like to read too much into it cuz like I have a very good short game. Like my hands are great. Yeah. Um old hockey players, we have great hands. Um the chipping on a Trackman, sorry, but No. And you can't putt, you can't chip. No, I'm just I'm hitting numbers. I'm working on things. I'm Yeah. It's funny cuz I'll hit a chip and it would be like a openfaced flop shot. It's going to come straight back at you. Guaranteed that it didn't carry more than 5 yards and it's like, "Oh, you hit that 30 yards." No. Take out the putting, you take out the chipping. No, sorry. Yep. Nope. Yeah. So, we That's my winter goal is to break down um not only my iron swing, but my wedge swing to make it more um efficient. Yeah. For one. But more consistent. So, I'm getting the ball closer to the hole, controlling spin more. Um, I've had an issue with that with my wedges is that I'll hit a great shot, it'll land by the hole, but it'll spin 30 ft back. And it's like, okay, we got to learn to Great, you know, maybe, you know, club down a little bit. Maybe instead of hitting that 60°, take a light 56, control the spin so that it just hits and stops and doesn't go anywhere. Nice. Versus, you know, hitting a full 60 and having it rip completely off the green, which yeah, happens a lot here in the state of Minnesota. It's soft. It's soft. Yes. Very soft. Versus Arizona, it's hard and it's going to roll and it's not going to come back as dry. That was the the other issue that I've had in playing tournament because I played a lot of mini tour stuff down in Arizona and I never played well. Um just cuz I could never adjust to it's the dry heat. It's going to roll out there. It's going to come back here. Not just like the the roll out, but like the distance is different. Like you you choose your line that you normally choose and you're like, "Oh, it's going to be good." And then it just rolls out into the rough. Rough as typical different grass. Yeah. Yeah. Rough you catch a lot of uh Kentucky blue versus Zoison on everything else. Yeah. Yeah. So you get a lot of like not as flyer as you do here, right? Like here you're you're playing for a flyer a lot. There it's not um it's more chunky like you're going to be chunking it out of there. So playing a lot more chunking runs. But the the firmness of the greens like you're not playing the numbers to the pin like you're playing front numbers, right? and hoping that the little bit of spin that you do create is going to stop it close enough to the hole where you're not rolling over the green. And that was my issue is I was rolling it out too far or I would miss club and leave it on the front of the green. Now I got a 40footer coming back like how am I going to do that tournament that you're like, "Hey, how am I going to putt this?" Like you're already in your own mind of like trying to two putt it. Um, the other thing too is the we joke around with the juniors that we play with at the club all the time because they they'd come down and they'd spend a couple weeks with us and play golf and you'd be looking at a right to left putt here. Y, but there's a valley pole there from the mountains to the valley. You're like, why did that break that way when the water slope? Yeah. There's a there's a slope that looks like it's break breaking left or right, but it breaks y to the the left. Yep. And that was one of the hardest things to actually judge cuz you got to know where you're at. Yes. And we have friends that were at Desert Mountain and those were some of the most frustrating rounds I've ever had is cuz I could never figure out where I was on those courses or where the valley was. Where the valley was. Cuz I've only played there, you know, a handful of times. He's been playing there for years. And he's like, "Oh, yeah, the valley's that way." I'm just like, "What do you mean? How you just told me it was that way and I'm on a different hole and I'm trying to play it that way." He's like, "Well, no, the valley's that way." like, well, I can't read it. I can't see my feet. I'm not looking at the line. To me, it looks like a left to right putt, right? And it broke 10 feet to the to the left, you know? Um, and those were the most frustrating rounds because I'd hit the ball great. It'd be like fairways, greens, but then the putter would not show up. Yep. And it's like, okay, I need to play here 10 times to know the greens, to know the readings. And they play there, you know, daily, right, for years. And they're like, yeah, you got to you got to be able to do that to understand it. But again, it's firm. It like the golf course trips though. Like playing Desert Mountain's like a treat. Like so you can never really be mad that you didn't play that well because it's a treat to play there. But it's just like again you're hard on yourself like you've got to know it. You've got to understand it. Yes. Like you might be averaging anywhere from 20 to 32 putts normally in a given round. Right. According to my gin, that's what I'm averaging. And then I'll go out there and it' be like 38 to 40 putts. And it's just like, come on. I ruined it because of that that green. Yeah. Frustrating. I I've had I've had the the funniest The first time we played there, um we played a course called Renegade. Okay. And the thing about this course is that from the tips, it's over 8,000 yards. Okay. It's Jack Nicholas design. They have two greens on each hole. Nice. So, they have a white flag and a yellow flag. So, from the tips to the yellow flag, it's over 8,000 yards. Yep. And Jack designed the course because he wanted people to have perfect greens every day. So they switch it. So they switch which one you're going to every day. Very cool. So we played it. Um I remember hitting it to about 20 ft on a par five. And at this point I am playing great. I'm even. And it I'm looking at it straight uphill, right? And I'm like, "Okay, so I'm going to have to give this one a little extra just to get it near the hole or try to make it." It rolled out 25 ft up the hill. And he goes, "Down valley." My buddy goes, "Down valley." And I'm like, "Huh? It's uphill. How do you figure down valley? It's up." He goes, "Oh, the valley is that way." And I was like, "But it's uphill. It's going uphill." And he goes, "It doesn't matter." He's like, "That's the way the course is made." I'm confused. So, not only did I hit a 20 foot 20 foot or 25 ft past the hole, now I have a 25 foot birdie putt coming back. Oh, that I, you know, ended up two putting, but it's just like so frustrating. I need I need the red and the green. I need the I need the book to see how this is going to go. Right. I need I need the greener. There's not a green book that can help me doing this cuz it's like I need a slope. I need something. Yeah. The valley the value was a definite throwing you off definite round killer when you're playing down there. It's such a different um such a different beast. I end up shooting, you know, even par 72 and I was happy about that, but I was still like confused. I need to play this three more times just just to understand it and see it. Yeah. It's one of one of my favorite courses to play down there was like that cuz it's like long. It's open because a lot of these desert courses, they're flat and they are what they are. Yeah. Yeah. You're not getting a lot of distance on them. No. No. Like they're um you play a lot They're all the trun are the same, too. Yep. Exactly. And they're It's desert. Desert golf is a different um beast than it is here. Like Yeah. You can hit it a little right and left and be in the trees. You hit a little right and left there. You're in the desert. Better have a desert club in your back. Yep. I mean, waste management's I mean, that's still the same. I mean, it is. Yeah. The only nice thing about that is when the bleachers are up, you get you get the bleacher experience. I've That course is fun to play when the bleachers are up. Yeah, we played it like a week before the I mean the stadium. I mean the coliseum is fun when the bleachers are up. Yeah, it's a different experience. I mean the fans were even there before. I mean it was fun. Yeah, we've played it when there's no bleachers up. Just a normal golf bleachers are up. It's a different experience for sure. Still paying the premium price to play. I'm just like, um, no, we'll play it when the beach. Yeah, we're we've played it enough. We don't need to play it. No, it's it's typical. What's one of your favorite courses or what's some of the favorite courses that you played? Oh, goodness. So, golf trips, we've been co year um was like the year of golf trips for us. Yeah, for sure. Because a lot of people were canceling tea times. They weren't traveling and Betsy and I were like, let's travel, right? Absolutely. Get discounts. But then you get all the people. I mean, it was frustrating, too, cuz you get all the people that are not golfers out there. Yep. And you get the kids and the families and the remote controls and the babies, and I'm like, really? Come on. We just relax. Yeah. Just here to relax. So, one of our first golf trips that we've um taken together as a couple was we're just like, let's take like a weekend trip to Vegas. Like, we never really explored um the TBC network. So, I was like, "Okay, we can we can go play TPC Summerland where they have the Shiners for $25 card fee." Absolutely. I was like, "Sweet. Do it." Betsy and I are walkers. We we do not take cards. We're going to do that next year. Like, I'm I'm like, "We're getting We're getting to push carts. We're doing it." Pushart way to go. Like, it's great exercise, you know? Keeps you more into the Well, you get in the zone more like every time you walk in my zone when I walk. High school and college, we had to carry our own carts and kids these days are like, "What is that?" I'm like, do you know when you're pacing? When you're pacing, like you walk the distance, like you walk and you pace like you're at the white marker and you're like, "Okay, I have 10 yards." Each pace, each step you take is your your yardage. Like that's what you know. And this will this trip will always be um kind of like the the one that was like fun for us because granted we went in in August and it'sundred 10 degrees in air or in uh Vegas. Vegas. And we get out there and uh we're like, "Oh, yeah. No, we we don't want a cart." Yeah. Like, "You guys got push carts we can rent, right?" They're like, "Yeah, yeah." Like they were looking at us like we're crazy. Yeah. We're like, "Oh, no. We're we're good." Like, "Yeah, it's a dry heat, but no, we can we're good. Have got this." Yeah. We made it. Um we had somebody playing behind us that accidentally hit into us cuz he he's like, "I hit the best shot of the world on hole two." They're like, "Yeah, I didn't think nothing of it." And uh he came up and he's like, "Hey," he's like, "Do you mind if we, you know, if I just like play with you guys, you know, like I don't want to push you." He's like, "Or play through." I was like, "Yeah, sure, whatever." And come to find out, he was a higher up on the at the Venetian. Oh, nice. And he was perfect. Well renowned guy. Um, and he called the clubhouse on hole five and said, "You need to bring carts out here for these crazy Minnesota cuz I don't want anybody to die." And it was a heat stroke. No, we're good. We feel fine. We feel fine. He goes, "That's what everybody says until they have a heat stroke, right?" So, we end up playing um with him and like he only played nine holes with us. But it was funny cuz he's just on the phone like telling everybody like these crazy motans you're walking like how could you guys ever, you know, tell all these guys to walk even like you need to. He's like this is not cool. He's like they're nuts. They're crazy. Um so if you played TBC Summerland on Whole 8 at par three, the guy that owns Venetian has the house right there. Okay. And he was telling us all about it cuz he stayed there. He's like, "Yeah, you can rent it nightly for a fee of $45,000." M um I think there was over 40 bedrooms and 40 bathrooms, but there's like a 48 call car garage underneath it and he was just telling us all this cool stuff. But um that was one of like the things like, okay, we need to keep doing this. Like not only you get to meet other people when you're on these golf trips. It's the people you meet. It's the networking. It's the networking, but like the traveling too. Like so we stayed um where did we stay that first time? We stayed at the MGM that first time we went out to Vegas and we kind of made it like a yearly thing to where we'd go out to Vegas, play TPC Summerland and TPC Las Vegas. Y and two different courses, both different layouts. Like TPC um Las Vegas used to be the Canyons course. So you get out there, you're like, why do you they call it the Canyon course and like the ravines? I was like, oh, okay. So, like you hit a ball like to a little to the right like on a blind t-shot and you're like, "Oh, it should be fine." And you get over there and there's like a 40 foot ravine and you're like, "Yeah, oh, I'm not doing this. Nope. I'm good. Ball's gone." Like, "We're not finding that." Um, but both of us are plant-based, so there there's like one of our favorite restaurants was out there and it was called The Modern Vegan. Very cool. And it's all it's kind of like a dirty vegan comfort food. Like you can get like pancakes, chicken and waffles. Like the normal food that you would get at a restaurant. Yes. Like bar food. Completely vegan. Completely. Completely vegan. Completely made um without any animal products. And it was funny because we'd always go in there and there would always be people that come in and didn't understand that it was vegan, which is amazing. Like that's good. I was just like thinking to myself like you're coming to a place called Modern Vegan, but you don't know it's vegan. They didn't know that everything's plant-based and like they wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Like nobody could tell the difference. Um but then we're like, "Okay, we need to book our next trip immediately." Yes, we're coming back next year. It doesn't matter where we're going. So then um we ended up sniping a couple tea times at Bandon Dunes. Nice. So that was another one of our favorite trips and we liked it because we could walk and it was walking only. Y so we go out there like we didn't get we had a four caddy with us. Um, again, that's networking where we met him and he's like, "Oh, yeah. I caddy down in Arizona during the the winter months and perfect. There you go." It was kind of funny because then we're like looking where he's catting at, but he's scattying at Scottsdale National. I was like, "Oh, we've only played that once." Um, and it was a funny situation when we played that course. It was awkward. Um, I don't know if Betsy told you the story about how we got to play Scottsdale National or not, but she was in PGA Superstore. Yep. And she's wearing a PhD hat and there's a member um, elderly gentleman that came up and was like kind of hitting on her. Yep. And he's like, "Oh." He's like, "Yeah, I can have you guys, you know, you're out." He's like, "Does your husband play?" She goes, "No, but my boyfriend does." So, not only we get I get looped into this this weird third wheel like golf thing, but we get out there, the sun goes away and it's raining. It's 40 and then it's seting and it's like the one year that you've probably seen the pictures of like um TPC Scottsdale posted like hey we have snow on before the waste management that's when we're playing snow and it's just but hey we're out there we're out there it's fun you go rain or shine like that's the one thing people don't understand in golf like you're die hards like if you play if you play in a prestigious course it's like hey this might be the only time that we're playing it that we're battling that but even like at TPC like when you know It's the last couple rounds. Rain or shine, like you're going. Like a hat, stocking hat, winter coat, you're going to get the last couple rounds and you're gone. You're going before the season's over. You're going. Yep. And that's way like Bandon, we got blessed because we didn't It was like 65 minimal wind. Yeah. It was like, "Okay, this is great." I mean, we played 36 a day. Yeah. Y and then we stayed right there at the lodge and then we came back and right then and there we were like, "We got to book another trip." Yeah. um not only to Bandon, but Bandon has been so hard. They have a lottery system now to get tea times. Well, that's how even like um Payne's Valley is like when we got those first two rounds out there, we're like we're going to come back. We went the first two years it was open. Yep. And when we went out to Ireland, I'm like we were expecting the wind and the rain and all the cold Ireland or Irish weather and it was absolutely beautiful. It's like 65 and sunny and 70 and sunny. I'm like, where's the rain? Where's the wind? I'm like, I love this. I'll live out here every day of my life getting the sun and the Yeah. But it's Yeah, that's what you want. So, we got back. We booked it my birthday trip to to Srass, which was a course I've always wanted to play. Yep. That's a fun course we played there. And it was We went and played it. You know, it's a couple months before they have the players. So, like all the back tea boxes, like you could play them on the par fours, but the par threes, they had them all netted off, so you couldn't really play like the true 17 that they play. Y it's just kind of to the left of it. Um, but that is a very daunting shot and it's it's super funny to see people like the group that we got paired with, the guys, I think they dumped probably five balls in the water and they just, you know, keep keep trying, keep trying to get it up there. We only got to play it once and we had um Georgia Tech came up on us in their golf cart and were screaming and yelling when I hit my shot. Oh no. And they wouldn't let us hit. They wouldn't let me hit again. And they like because they were playing the next tournament the next day. Okay. And they're like, "We're gonna go in and tell the pro shop." And I'm like, "No, let's just forget it." Like I don't want to hit again. Like it is what it is. Mine bounced on the green by there and went in the water. I'm like, "I'm over it." Like we paid all the money to play and like forget. And that's the thing. It's like you ruined my one shot. They jack they jacked the prices up now to play there, which we'll probably go back at some point, but it's like a lot of people are the stadium course too or not the stadium the valley. The D Valley. Yeah. That's fun, too. Yeah. Yes. That was we played that one too, but then we played we played the the actual stadium course twice um when we were there. Um but a lot of people like the guys like well I just paid all this money to play so I could play 17 and that's what everybody is all thinking about is like the 17th hole and to me like my favorite stretch out there was 16 17 16 17 18 no question. That is 18 is a lot of fun. Like 18 is beautiful. It was raining a little bit for us, but just all along the water is Yeah. Y like how much are you going to cut off? Yep. Yep. And like my first round I didn't cut out not enough cuz I was through the fairway in the pine straw which leaves a very hard shot when the water's left and you're trying to hook this around trees. Um but like I would say like you were talking about battling the elements. I think I've talked to Mark and he was like, "Yeah, we want to get out to Pebble Beach." And like we went out to Pebble Beach, forecast looked great. I was like, "Oh, this is going to be great." When you spend that type of money, like you got to stay at the go back to Ireland, no question. Again, over that like Ireland for the price that we paid to go there getting out of the country and playing another outofcountry course like Ireland was by far probably beach on steroids and it was amazing. Like always wanted to be Old is that Yeah. And it's going to be harder now with a dog, but we'll we'll make it work. Um, but we I pulled my debit out a couple times. No worries. We live close. So, we got out to Pebble Beach and like I mean they roll out pretty much red carpet for when you're there. Like the rooms at the lodge like the fireplace like we turn the fireplace on. We stayed right on the first hole. So, our room was facing the first hole. We can go out on the patio and we can watch people teeing off. Yeah. And then we teed off there the next day. We played Pebble Beach. And I would say like they were setting up um for the proam. So there were stands and everything getting set up and it's very kind of like you have spy glass too. I mean there's other courses to play. Spy glass is just as nice. We did but when you were out there on like Pebble Beach and you're like thinking of all these shots and like you remember the years back in went up to against the edge like I walked up to the edge. That is scary. Oh yeah. like one one one little trip and you're falling down. Yeah. You're like, "Okay, this is all bringing back memories." Like you have all of them there, Jack Nicholas there and Tiger there and Jordan Spe, okay maybe like Yeah, you have to have a caddy when you're out at Pebble Beach and um I was like, you know, telling the caddy like, "Hey, like I'm not like the normal people that you usually caddy for. I'm going to take you all the way back, you know, aggressive lines, but I need to know where these things run out. So, I hit where am I going to be? What are my numbers? Yeah. Like, and it got to where Jordan Spe was and he's like, if you just keep this left and then the rough was so thick out there, like you look over and see people that missed the you have a search party for everybody. Oh, yeah. Yep. Like trying to find I need a flag. Where am I going to go? Like we need spotters out here. Um, but it was it was it was great. But then we played Spanish Bay the next day and that's when we were bringing in the elements like the first five holes. Amazing. 65 sunny and then you see it coming from the ocean torrential downpours for the rest of the round. Absolutely. Luckily we had the rain gear. Like the couple that we were playing with, they were like, "I think we're going to call it." I'm like, "No, I'm not. I'm playing." Like they're not going to give you a rain check. Yeah. No. Like you don't get to come back. You don't get to come back. You're going to play through it. You have the gear. It got so bad. Yep. That they had squeegeees on every green. So you can squeegee. It's okay. You're not coming back. It's a once in a lifetime. Just play. So we we played it and then we went back and we sat in front of the fire to warm back up cuz you're absolutely freezing. Um but yeah, like I've I've played golf um before I met Betsy. I played in Bahamas, uh St. Kits, Aruba. Aruba's a different a different beast. Yeah, I'm sure. 40 to 50 mph winds off the ocean. Yep. I think you get one hole that usually is downwind and the rest are either cross or into it. And Yep. I mean, that's Ireland is that way. I mean, on Olds, you're hitting into the cliff, which Tiger Woods calls the old [ __ ] hole. You're hitting straight into a cliff. It's a par five. Um, you can't see where you're going. The next shot you're hitting into another one where you're hitting off a 500 foot drop, hitting into the green. Um, on the third shot you have wind going to the left, you're hitting into the green, which is another 500t drop. You just can't see. There's lighouses and everything else. It's It's absolutely insane. But every shot you hit is absolutely amazing. You can't help but just look every which way and your jaw is dropped and absolutely beautiful where you're at. You don't know. I mean, that's all about the sights and all about the fields and it's one of those like you just stop and look at everything. Yeah. See me, my competitive brain is like if I'm not playing good in places like that, like I get kind of like hard on myself and like little little frustrated and Betsy would just be like, "Hey, like take a minute. Look where you're at. Look where we're at. Like we're playing golf at like Spy Glass or Pebble or you're in Ireland and you have like old cemeteries here and you have lighouses there and Yeah. just take a minute. But one of the most frustrating golf trips that I had that Betsy understood that I was getting frustrated, we went to TPC Dante Bay. Okay. Which is in Lorettto. Yep. On the Baja Peninsula. And it it's one of those trips where like we're playing 36 a day, you know, gorgeous views. Yes. Overlooking the ocean. And the week prior, I got clubs, like brand new irons. Um, not going to name who built them. No. But trying to grind them out, trying to figure them out. They were built wrong. Mhm. So I My clubs are normally flat. Yep. And I have standard lofts. Yep. They built these three degrees week upright. Yeah. So, I hit a lot of hoszles, a lot of shanks, and I just could not figure it out. Yeah. Whatsoever. And those are the only irons I brought with. I didn't bring my old irons with. So, why would you bring your old irons with when you got new ones? And the numbers were off. My my carry numbers were off by 10, 15 yards. And a lot of these holes were force carries over ravines, like ball's gone. Like, you're not getting it. And I couldn't figure it out. And I was getting so frustrated and he's like, "I don't know what's going on." He's like, "I've never seen you shake the ball so much." When we went to Ireland, Mark got senior chefs because his clubs didn't come in. So I completely get that. I'm like, he's like, "I I can't do this." I'm like, "We're in Ireland, honey. Just just let it go. We're in Ireland. We're in Ireland. Like play golf." At that point, it's just like you're so like frustrating cuz like my driver was great. Like I'd hit middle fairway shank. Yeah. anything to do with an iron shank or super short. I'm just like, I don't understand it whatsoever. So, when I got back to Arizona, I went and I got the the specs checked, figured it out. Um what was wrong with them? And they're like, oh, well, we could, you know, bend them the right way. I was like, "No, just take them back. Take them back. I don't want them. I don't I don't want to deal with this anymore. Like, I'm going to go I'm frustrated. Yeah. I don't want to deal with these irons anymore." So, they took them back, refunded me my money. I'm just like, I'm going to go like do it myself. I'm I'm so kind of like a club nut when it comes to like specs and everything. So, I've been doing a lot of like my own fitting and like figuring out what works for me. Like this is what I want to do and I will go and do that. Like I've been through club fittings with a lot of like different brands and like you know enough to know what works for you, what doesn't. We'll sit there for hours. Absolutely. Dialing it in. And that's a lot of the thing too is like that's why I like to go to places and do it myself because you do it at the club like they give you an hour right I'm like no no like we're just I mean I know I know enough about that I mean I even do it with my driver like I'm what shaft how what the difference is people are like how can you hit the exact same shaft three different shafts the same speed same because I'm like I know how to swing them I know what to do how to make them go the exact same speed to get what I want to make it go the same way like I just know what I'm doing I know what I'm know what I'm doing. And that that's the funny thing because there's a lot of club manufacturers out there now. They're like, "Oh, yeah. You'll hit this club, you know, make a regular weak and a stiff go the exact same speed." Yeah. Because I know the difference and I know the shaft. Yeah. If you know what you're doing with the shaft, you can hit the same shot. Yeah. Um but a lot of these club manufacturers are they're they're selling you that they can, you know, get you distance and get you distance, but like your seven iron, it's just a different loft. You technically got a sixiron that's cloaked to be a seven iron. And I'm not going to name names again, but I hit one at TPC the the other day. So my my seven iron was carrying like 190 to 191. Um and the seven iron that I hit at theirs was carrying also anywhere from 191 to 193. And he's like, "Oh yeah, you get a little bit of distance." And you know, it brought the flight down a little bit. Um spin rate stayed the same. like it's probably a better club. And I'm like, I don't have a problem with my height. If I need to bring down the height, I'll just flight the shot. Y um I can just change my swing a little. But the the difference is that yours is 5 degrees stronger. Like my sixiron goes farther than that. Y So you're basically giving me a sixiron. So if I hit my sixiron, it' definitely be further. Y and that's the funny thing is like a lot of these clubs, these guys like I hit a seven iron like 220 yards. It's like but why? Like what's the point of it? Yeah. Why do you need to hit a 7 iron 220 yards? I can make my six iron do that. I can do something else with something else. Yeah, I don't need to. Like the gapping is what I'm more like I want to hit a specific club, a specific I can make my all my clubs are a 10 yard difference. I can make them go more if I need to. It's just a 10 yard gap. You have your stock shots and you have your full shots. And that's what a lot of people like they look too much into like, oh, I'm chasing the distance. I hit my seven iron or the the ego my seven iron, you know, 220 yards. Like that's that's great. My driver I always go for more because I I want to get that distance but everything else is a 10 yard and a lot of a lot of driver like the technology these days the it's insane. Yeah. Like I I'm actually kind of curious to see what happens and the balls and the speed like let's get it to go straighter like Bryson to shamble. Let's make that speed go straighter with all Yeah. Yeah. And like if Bryson watches this I'd like to have a sleeve of your pro. when he watches this when he watches this of like a sleeve of those proto balls that I know we're all looking at those right now. Yes. And that's the thing is like Titus did release the their custom performance ball like the left dot which a lot of tour players play, but now they have one that's even lower spinning um that Cameron Young played with that he won that tournament with. It's a double dot dot, but it still has the same green side spin as a Pro V1X, which I was like, "Okay." You mean I got lower spin off the driver and the irons, but better green side spin? I was like, "Yeah, like I like I'd like that ball. I'll take that one. I'll try I'll take that ball. Like, I'll pay you money. Yeah, I'll try it. I'll just I'll take a couple extra sleeves and we'll just try it out." Yes. But that that's another thing, too, is like a lot of people don't get fit for a ball. No. And ball fitting is just It's huge. It's just as important as, you know, club fitting. I mean, everybody's like, "Wait, you play the Pro V1Xs or you play the AVXs?" I'm like, "That's what I like and that's what I play and that's where I get more distance off." They're like, "Well, why don't you play something else?" I'm like, "Because that's what's fit for me." Yeah. A lot of people will like go like, "Oh, no. Those balls are expensive. Like, I don't want to play those balls." But that's what works for me. That's what I like and that's what I play. It's mental, too, but it's what it is. Just like, "Hey, you play a stiff driver and you play this." I'm like, "That's what I do. I might change it tomorrow, but that's what I'm comfortable with." Yeah. Yeah. And like me, I'm a prov or the the little F dot guy. Why I don't play like a Callaway Super Soft is like I might be able to hit it the same distance, but I can guarantee you the Prov one I'm going to keep on the planet and the other one's going to spin off the planet. Like just Yeah. Just the way that the balls are made. So yeah, I've been through many ball fittings and I I like to test different balls. I do, too. I've spent a ridiculous amount of money when LA Golf came out with their golf ball and they were double the price of a total. Why aren't you gonna try them out? I always go back to the same what I like and what I know. It it was great for distance. Like it got me extra distance, but the spin wasn't there on the the iron shots. I couldn't get the ball to spin. Um putting it felt very firm off the putter. Didn't like that at all. So it's like, yeah, I'm done with that. So let's cut it a little bit and let's go to health and fitness. Health and fitness. Health and fitness. Yes. Oh gosh. Health and fitness. Oh, so a lot. You probably don't know this, but I did bodybuilding for a handful of years. Yep. Back in 2014. Um I stopped drinking back in 2013. Yep. Um it was just like this isn't for me. I want to get more, you know, in shape. I want to start competing. So that was like a goal. Yeah. And then I heard somebody say something. I don't. It was like this fitness influencer that says each drink sets you back a week from your training. I'm like like what am I doing right? Like I'm not training at all. Like yeah, I'm not doing this. And I'm working out and like starting working out was painful. I was like I didn't have the drive right away to like want to get to the gym and work out for an hour, do cardio, right? And then you're telling me that one drink would set back my whole week. Yep. like that, right? Nope. That was like that was it for me. I'm done. I'm done. I was like, I'm gonna put all, you know, full motivation into working out and like trying to compete in bodybuilding. And I started getting into like working out and actually, you know, the the meal prep, yeah, was the majority of it, right? Um before I did eat Yes, I did eat meat before. So, it was it was a struggle um to not only meal prep for a week out because like towards the end of the week you're like, "Oh, this has been sitting this is not getting the this doesn't taste the same anymore." Yeah. This has been sitting in the fridge for, you know, six days. Yes. But like at that point, it just became mind over matter. Um let's just push through this one because the results started coming in. I was like, "Okay, so something good is happening." I would work out. I worked as a personal trainer at um a gym at LA Fitness in St. Paul and I got a break. So I'd work like a morning shift and then I take a break and work out for two hours and then I come back and I'd finish till 6 o'clock at night and then I'd do cardio. Yep. For an hour and then shower, go home, redo it the whole next day. Even on my days off, I'd still do the same kind of schedule. Um that's more to the extreme, right? because I was trying to y get down to lower body percentage mid-step on stage and compete. Yep. So, I started doing that and one of the things that was really hard was the meal prep because you'd prep these meals. Y we didn't have a microwave, right, at LA Fitness Fitness. They didn't have like a break room. So, the problem was I was eating cold rice, beef, and broccoli. Yep. Four to five times a day, right? I was like, "Okay, this isn't quite working, but we'll make it work. Easier." And now now nowadays it's easier like I'm not really chasing um you know the bodybuilding. I did five shows you know placed top five in a couple shows and I'm just like this is maybe this isn't what I want. This isn't quite what I want to do. I'm not driven to that anymore. Like there's a lot of friends of mine that are still competing in bodybuilding. They're IFBB pros. They're they're chasing that. I'm just like this it takes a lot to do. Yeah. It's a lot of money and effort for very little return. Right. is my opinion. Um, unless you're like the number one number one or number two. Yeah. Yep. You're making, you know, endorsement money. You're making, you know, paychecks from winning those big shows. Me risk reward. Yeah. I was an amateur at the time. I wasn't a pro. So, it was like the step from amateur to pro was just so hard to do. I'm just like, you know what? I don't want to do this anymore. And then that's when I started golfing. I was still doing bodybuilding a little bit when I started golfing, but then the golfing kind of like took over. So, my my fitness more tailored towards how do I be more efficient with my golf swing, with controlling, you know, my speed, but also my strength, right? So, it became more strength training and mobility, right? So, over the years now, I've been all about mobility. I do doing it every day and trying to get Betsy on it. Um, she's always asking me how I hit the ball far. I tell her I do mobility every day. She's like, "That's not it." I'm like, "No, that's it." Yeah. And uh I use app, that pliability app. Okay. Um they give you specific workouts and mobility workouts that you do every day. It's anywhere from 20 to 25 minutes a day. Specific stretches where you're holding each pose from two to three minutes and it's really good for your body. Um and then I do that with a workout. So Colin Ramos, one of the kids at the club, one of the juniors, he comes over every morning. He's been working out with me. Um, which is great because he wants to learn, you know, he's a D1 golfer, committed. He's like, he wants to get better, right? And he wants to get stronger. He's motivated. Yes. Yep. So, and it keeps me motivated cuz it's like, you have someone to do it with you. So, it's like, okay, like I got to be able to do this, someone holding you accountable. He holds you accountable. Figure out different workouts each day, like tailoring it towards, you know, strength, but also towards golf. Yeah. And fitness and mobility. And that's hard to find. Like it's like I'm kind of in the same boat. I'm like I've got to find something. Is it going to lifetime and doing Pilates? Is it going somewhere and finding it golf related too? Golf specific workout. It's very hard. Um a lot of the stuff too you can find on like social media. They have a lot of people that are doing like golf specific workouts now. And I just like pick and choose some and then I mesh it in. But then when you do it by yourself it's like do I like Yeah. And it was very hard. So, we've been we were in Arizona, we'd go to Lifetime. We're not at Lifetime anymore. Um, and then we're the closest one around here is 2530. Yeah. Yeah. For was 30 minutes, you know, driving and I'm just like, I don't want to do that every morning. Um, so then we found a local gym, the Crunch Fitness, and it was really crowded in the morning. like they have classes but then like the machines like not to dig on them but even they they said it the other day when they saw Betsy it's like I understand that you have a home gym because 50% of it's always broken I'm starting to do ours that's literally what I'm doing I'm like it's either doing a home gym or yeah planets's not good planets is no yeah like a lot of the gyms like Blaine needs a home or Blaine needs a good gym a good gym they Blaine needs Lifetime Fitness for sure I They're building everything else coming up. We need a lifetime. And we need we need a lifetime for sure. Um but the thing is too is like I'd go in there and then there's just no space. Like they didn't have a stretching area, right? And the area that they just built always had a class in it. So I'm like where am I supposed to stretch? Like I do this pliability every day like at 25 minutes. Like there was nowhere for me to stretch. So it's like well I could either do it at home and then go to the gym and then come back home. And then when we got our house, I was like, "We're building a home gym." Yep. Like I don't care. Like we're just building it. Yep. And we did. And now it's better. Like I wake up in the morning, let the dog out. Yeah. Going on to the gym. Like I don't have to drive anywhere and I'm just like, "Okay, perfect. It's a lot better." And like it's your own gym, so you can do whatever you want whenever you want. Like I don't have to wait for a machine. I don't have to wait for anything. Like me and um Colin, we set up I'll set up a circuit every morning and we'll we'll do a couple circuits, a couple rounds each, and then we have a treadmill. Um try to run a couple times a week. I'm not a big not a big runner, but running is part of speed and getting And now Divot wants to get outside and run and go. Exactly. He wants to run the snow. I don't I don't like that. No. But then like we couldn't find a gym around here either that had a cold plunge and the lifetime in the cold plunge and the red light therapy are life-changing. Like you have to do that every single day both. And the lifetime they started was when we started cold plunging is the lifetime in Scottsdale. They turned one of the two hot tubs they had into a cold plunge. And they opened up January 1st of this last year. And we we did it. And the first time Betsy and I did it um we did it together and we get in there and I'm just like Bessie breathe. like you have you have to breathe breathe. Yep. And I was like, I know it's cold, but you just got to breathe. You just got to make it. The you know, first time we went, we went like a minute and a half. And now we do it religiously. Three minutes a day and it's it's easy. And then when we built our home gym, I was like, we have to have one of these in our home because there's nowhere around here that now it's like you can't go a day without it. Like it's just normal. I've been taking it a little bit light in the winter because I'm already cold from letting Divid out in the morning. So like we go and take our little 10-minute walk in the morning. um let him do his stuff and I get back in and I just like no can't do can't do the cold plunge on top of the cold walk. No, cannot do that today. No. Um but yeah, like the fitness side of it, it all starts with not only the motivation of wanting to like better yourself and like finding a program that works for you. Yes. But also the food. Yeah. And the the diet. You have to do it all. I know a lot of people are like, "Well, how do you find stuff that's good?" Well, for one, buy a lot of organic vegetables. Yep. Organic is the way to go. But I also I like to read the ingredient labels. Y because, you know, hopefully sooner than later, a lot of things change, but there's a lot of additives, red red dyes. Yes. Stuff that's not good for you. Y um in foods. So, we we try to keep it to minimal ingredients or natural ingredients, all the foods that we eat. But when it comes to that is you have to determine what your uh you can do this with like your doctor or go to somebody but you can figure out what your your basic metabolic rate is. Um and figure out like if you're eating enough because a lot of people don't understand and I would preach this when I was a trainer is you're not eating enough. Correct. A lot of the train the people that I trained would come in and they would be like oh I just I'm just so hungry. you know, I would eat, but I'm gaining weight. I'm just like, well, how much are you eating? Right? Like, well, I'd have this in the morning and then this in the evening. Well, what's your output? Like, what are you doing, you know, during the day? Well, I come in, I do my my workout, my hour of cardio. And I was like, you're burning way more y than what you're putting into your body, right? So, your body is taking that first meal, and it's holding on to it because it's starving itself. So, a lot of the weight that I've lost, I was eating six, seven meals a day. Yep. And people were like, "Well, how can you eat so much and still lose weight?" I was like, "Well, because I'm actually feeding my body. It's not starving. It's not Yeah. It's not holding on to anything. It's, you know, it's using my energy sources like it's supposed to be." Y. So, a lot of people think, well, if I, you know, everybody's like, I just got to be in a calorie deficit. But like, if too much of a calorie deficit is potentially not only dangerous, but it's bad for your body. your body goes into starvation mode. You start storing body fat and you're like, "Well, I'm gaining weight." And that's when people start giving up, right? You're like, "Well, this working out thing is not working." When it's not the working out thing that's not working. It's your diet. I mean, fasting every once in a while is good for you. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. But not to the point where you're not eating period. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Like a reset. I do we do a 24-hour fast usually on Sundays. Yep. um after a high carb day and a high input of food intake of food on Saturdays about the right kind of food. Yes. And we've been making our own pizza. We make our own dough. Yep. We make sure that all the ingredients that we're making is not like you can get a pizza from anywhere, but you don't know what's going into it. And that's a lot of Yeah. And that's a lot of the things that I struggle with, too. Like going out to eat. Yeah. um not only finding like healthy plant-based options, but like I don't know, you know, how they're cooking it or what they're cooking it in. Are they frying it in oil? Like Yes. Like how are Yeah. Like what is what are they doing with that? Um, and then the diet part of it, there's so many um fat diets that everything's to get on, you know, like correct the keto like, well, I'm just going to eat, you know, highfat for, you know, this many days. And it works for some people, but it doesn't work for other people. Like, I' I've seen if you're going to do it, you work with a nutritionist. Work with someone. Work with your work with someone that you know what it is. And I know there's a company out there that does your blood work and they check like your your levels and like what you're deficient in and what your body needs. You can do your superpower, make sure that you're doing what you need to do. Yeah. Exactly. Um because I've I've seen guys that have done keto that have had great results from it. And I've seen guys that have gained 20 25 pounds of body fat because all they were eating was, you know, lean ground not lean ground beef, but but ground beef, bacon, cheese. Like they're like, "Oh, there's no carbs in it, so I can do that." And some of our best friends are carnivores and they're in great shape because that works for them, right? And they're eating, you know, a continuous amount of food. They're fueling their body rather than do it the right way. Yes. The right way. Yep. And that the diet is probably the main right key when it comes to any fitness and losing weight. Um and a lot of people they don't I think it's as a society we've grown what is it? Um, we've grown kind of just like numb to everything because everything we want that gratification right away, right? There's no delaying in the gratification. And with, you know, restaurants delivering on Door Dash, like you can order fast food and it's right there. It's cheap. You don't have to make anything processed. It's everything. Yes. Yeah. And even like if you're out and about, like a lot of people just stop at like a fast food restaurant cuz it's a gas station. Even better. Like let's just stop there and get something quick and easy. Something off the roller grill that's been sitting there for Let's get up with Monster Energy as we're going. And you know, and energy drinks is not something it's another thing I don't have either. Um I'll have my one coffee a day. I I do like a a diet soda here and there. I mean, me giving up caffeine and sugar drinks is like I used to get migraines. I mean, I still get migraines every once in a while. Now they're brought on by stress, but the amount of the energy that I have now is so much better. I don't crash like I used to. I mean, it used to have to like you get to 2:00 in the afternoon and I would be liked energy drink or like I need caffeine or I need something and now it's it's just a natural energy. It's like you feel so much better like the gut health, the stomach, the the esophagus, the liver, the kidneys, everything. Like I went to the doctor um just for a yearly checkup and all my levels and everything. She's like, "You're in the best shape you've ever been in. Like what are you doing?" I'm like taking care of myself. doing what I need to do like staying healthy doing the right things. I'm doing I'm doing the right things that I need to be doing like all the all the all the smart stuff. Yes. Yeah. So, I mean it's it's just one of those things that you need to do, right? Yeah. Like yearly. Like I I get a blood test um through a company at least twice a year just to make sure that all my LDL levels, cholesterol, all that stuff, you know, testosterone, everything's in the in the right areas because a lot of people, you know, you don't know. What you don't know, you don't know. Right. Yes. And like when I first started with him, like we realized that, you know, my testosterone was a little low. And um before like when I quit bodybuilding, I was diagnosed with ulcerative colitis. Right. Yes. Which is an autoimmune disease and I did a couple clinical trials and that's why I started the plant-based diet. Which you have to I mean because all that all the supplements, everything like that just starts to affect all of that stuff. Yep. And I was on medication and everything for that ulcerative colitis to where I was checking, you know, different diets that would work and y symptoms would go away but then come back even stronger. So the only ones that actually made it go away and stay away was a was a plant-based diet, right? And everybody's like, "Oh, you're, you know, you're just a crazy vegan." Everybody puts their comments in like I'm not a crazy vegan. Like you can eat whatever you want to eat. Like but this is what works for me. I can still eat pizza. You can still do what I do. I eat all the same stuff that you do. It's just made differently. It just looks different. Yeah. Just made from the same different ingredients. Yeah. Different ingredients. And um that's the only thing. But like when I switched that, like my energy levels were Yeah. So much better. But like coming from that last blood test, they're like, "Hey, your testosterone is low. It's pretty common. Okay, so this is what I need a little bit more of this or I need a little bit more of that." So, and they said this would pretty common for somebody that had autoimmune disease that had, you know, internal, you know, intestinal bleeding. Like it's pretty pretty common. Y So like, okay. So then they put me on a protocol and got that all but like again I was in a state of where I was like I was tired. Y I was like what's going on? Like why am I tired? I got a little tiredness in the afternoon. Yep. Of all times like it was like oh that's just normal life. I was like no it's it's not normal. It's like something I'm young. There's not Yeah. Something was off. And like again, you don't know if you don't know. I'm not golfing. It's dark. It's Minnesota. Maybe I need to go to Arizona. Yeah. Exactly. Now, now it's weird. It's like I get out of work and I'm just like, why is it dark? Right. Yeah. Been sitting in my office for for 9 hours. That's maybe we do need to go to Arizona. Yeah, we need to we need to make a trip. But I mean, I've been looking at the like the forecast, everything there like it was the same way. It was like six o'clock and it' get dark. Still doesn't make sense. Yeah, but it was a different type. Like it was dark but still nice outside. So you can go walk around. So it's like now it's like you're just trapped inside. I really don't want to be out in all that snow. I don't want to go shovel again. Yeah, the shoveling. I made a joke with pets. I was like, I haven't shoveled in over eight years and it's heavy and it's ice and it's not fun. It's not light. It's not There's no part of it that's fun. No. And I haven't shoveled in over eight years. And that just happens to be that the year that we stayed till, you know, after Christmas when we're planning, you know, we're planning on going down there after Christmas that we get the most amount of snow that we've ever had. My back is was even hurting. My back never hurts. My shoulders hurt. Like I went to um the training room, the car I'm going to have um Dr. Peter on as a podcast guest coming up and I've never gone to a chiropractor and he does a lot of sports medicine stuff and he's like, "Have you ever been been to a chiropractor?" I'm like, "Nope." He's like, "Why not?" Cuz I'm like, "I don't hurt." He's like, "Do you know that your back and shoulder?" I'm like, "Yeah, cuz I was shoveling for the last four days and chopping at ice." He's like, "Well, it's your right side's a little more tender than your left." I'm like, "Yep, cuz I was shoveling shoveling shoveling and chopping at the ice." He's like, "That's not from golf." I'm like, "Nope." Cuz I was literally at the end of my driveway where all the ice and snow is. I was chopping with an ice pick. Yeah. So, I don't mind the shoveling cuz I figure it's a good exercise. Second workout. Bessie's on this kick. She's like, "We need to get another shovel, like a different shovel, like a better one." I was like, "There's nothing wrong." I have a metal one. Like, I like doing it, but it was just the constant like all the ice at the bottom like got to me after a couple days. It wasn't the fact that like she was like, "Oh yeah, we just need a new shovel." I was like, "No, there's nothing wrong with our shovel." But the most humbling thing is when you're pushing the snow and then you hit a crack. You hit the cracks and it jars you. It like goes into my stomach. I'm like, "Wait, what?" Like Mark's not doing it cuz he's got a bad back. But every time I would do it and like, "Yeah, we have seven kids and I'm out here doing this. I'm like hitting the cracks. Why am I doing this?" And then you get done and the snowplow comes by again. I'm like, "Bro, come on." Like I just hit that crack one too many times and that ice was there and I got all the ice away and I salted and sanded it and it was clear on the concrete. Then he comes by again. I'm like, "All right." Yeah. Putting the boots on, going back out there. It's always after too when you get that shovel like it just comes by and like but those cracks are the ones that like you get it all done and you hit the last crack. I'm like going back out there. It's funny because we have neighbors that all have like snowblowers and I I would never get a snowblower because I feel like it's a wasted investment. They don't do anything. We have a we have an electric one that's a little paddle blower that doesn't do anything and I like the shoveling. Like I don't mind it. Yeah. They're like, "Oh, hey, yeah, we got the snowblower." They're out there and it takes them longer to do it with the snowblower than it does for me. Back and forth with the shovel like gets you quicker and done and they're walking all slow blowing. And it's great, but I feel it is a wasted investment cuz how often have you used it in the last couple years in Minnesota? Not very often. Like granted, I'll go up and down with a shovel and I'm done. The shovel gets to the ground better anyway. Yes. You don't have like the the still like the quarter inch of snow that just flattens when you're The only problem I'm having is when there's ice down there and I'm like I can't like I have to literally like get the crowbar ice pick out and get underneath it. Chopping the ice. Yeah. Everybody's walking by. They're like, "Why are you out here?" I'm like, "Cuz the kids are all gone and I'm not going to have Mark do it cuz he's got a bad back. So, I'm just I'm doing it. I'm good. I like doing it. It's good exercise, but my back might actually hurt after this last time." Yeah. And we just were we were to the point of where we ran out of places to put the snow. Yeah. It kind of starts coming down to the driveway. I'm like maybe if I had a plow truck, I'd push it back a little bit, but Yeah. Yeah. Like we have to have a little spot for like Divot doesn't know where to go to the bathroom anymore. The six cars in the driveway are starting to get too close together. That's all. Yeah. Yeah. Like Yeah. Divot doesn't know where to go to the bathroom, so we have to shovel a little spot off. You might start getting buried after a while. Like he jumps in and like he's he's like, I don't know what to do. He's confused. Yeah. He's like, I don't know. Am I supposed to just go right here? Because I'm like all the way up to my shoulders here in the snow. So, what do you think that you would tell your younger self 10 years ago? What would be some good advice for your younger self? Anything? 10 years ago. 10 years ago. Wait, what's years? Oh, man. It was super funny. I have a couple funny stories what I tell myself from 10 years ago. One was be invest in Bitcoin, right? No, that that was a funny thing. Uh, so a guy that works for me and I we we started with the same. Is it Is it Eric? No, Nick. Nick. Nick. Yes, I've met Nick. Yes. We lived together on the road when we traveled for seven years. We constantly me and him. I can't believe like I'm terrible with names and I think I almost remembered his name. I'm like, that's good. That's impressive. And uh we were in New Orleans when we were working that hurricane when Bitcoin first was like starting to come out where it was couple cents a bitcoin and we're like should we just throw $150 into it just to see. Yeah. And we thought of it as a joke like like digital currency will never be a thing, right? And I remember we talked about it a couple weeks ago. I was like you remember that we were gonna invest in Bitcoin and dang never did. We were gonna throw $150 in. He's like yeah. He's like, "Yeah, we we missed the boat on that one." So that right. So 10 years ago, um would definitely tell myself the diet would be like not only diet, but invest in more of like my future. um not only like stock market and like cryptocurrency investing, but also invest in like companies. Mhm. Um because I feel like there's a lot of there's a lot of companies that are being bought out by private equity, but like being a partner in with these contractors. Yep. that helps them a little more because I feel like a lot of private equities, they come in and then they they kind of run the companies into the ground to where it's more about like how can we flip this company to make profit versus how are we going to grow this, you know, this company to be established, great customer service, great reviews, and really take care of a community. Yeah. Rather than I'm going to double flip this company and make profit and all of our shareholders are going to be happy. And that's what you're seeing in the industry now is a lot of these companies being bought out by private equity because a lot of the companies are folding because nobody wants to buy them or andor the things they think that they're going to hand them down to the younger generation don't want them. They're like forget it. I have friends that have the last company I worked with that they were higher ups in the company and they just who did they fire first, right? Them. Yep. And then everybody else is like well hey I've been working here for you know 10 years. They don't want to invest in I don't want to be a part of this anymore. like they're changing all this stuff. Like the company that once was is like that. So like yeah, I I tell myself to not only invest more into like the growth of companies and smaller companies um and into my health and wellness. But along the lines of like I would have started my company sooner. Yeah. Right. than I did. Uh I would have been more um proactive in in doing that just because of of what we offer and like the knowledge that we do have. And I mean a lot of these contractors, I mean, we're grateful for them and they're grateful for us and it's a great partnership that we have because they know that they're being taken care of with their bottom line and anything that they ask us if they have questions, you know, to where they might not have the knowledge on it. Yep. But we do, right? We We're always available. Like they just call us on the phone like, "Hey, I have a question on this." Yep. We're not the type of company that's just collaborating together. Yeah. We're not like, "Oh, yeah. I'm going to charge you a retainer or this phone call is going to cost you 150 bucks." Like, no, we don't do that. And we're not charging them per estimates. And and that's another thing I wanted to do. Like there's claims companies out there that charge per estimate plus a fee for what they add to it. And I was just like, "Well, no." Because a lot of these estimates take us anywhere from five to, you know, 10 minutes to write just to get like a reinspection or to get a second um opinion from an insurance company or something that they've missed. Right. And we don't feel that need that we need to charge them for something that isn't generating revenue for them yet. Correct. So that makes no sense on why we're charging them. Like everybody's like, well, you know, these bigger claims companies like, yeah, they have to pay the person to to write it. But again, it's it's 5 to 10 minutes. Like it's easy. It's easy to do. Anybody can write an estimate, right? Um, with the same system, but where we come in is that we have the knowledge to not only negotiate it, but to train the guys in to get the proper document to get, you know, them to more approve it versus just writing an estimate. And I think a lot of people fall short on that because they don't get the proper documentation on that. Um, and then play more golf. Yeah. Like I don't I feel like Betsy is never going to stop you. She's going to be the one playing golf, too. She's already 10 years ago. I didn't play as much as I should have, but um play more fun golf. Um, and not only like practice more. I do practice a lot, but like I'd like to get more into like trips, like having fun on trips and enjoying it with friends. Um, we have a group that of guys that we I go on Betsy Betsy's angry about this, but there's a group of guy friends that I'm always on a trip with. We do. It's called the Nan Classic. Yep. So, we do it every year and it's a Ryder Cup style. There's 16 of us. Last year, I've heard about the like the group. Her and I will go on a trip then. Yeah. We'll be good. Yeah. So, we last year we went to land man, but it it's great. Like, we play like we're all friends, but it gets very competitive. Yeah. Um and it's just it's a good thing to do. Like I I like doing that. Um there's some years that I've missed because Bets's been at Q school. Yeah. Um but it's like it's guys that we haven't seen for for years. Like I I haven't seen the guys. I see him maybe once a year and that's that time of year. But then we pick up where we left off and and it it's so much fun. It's important. You've got to have that time to do that, too. Investing in myself and my business would definitely be something I'd tell myself from 10 years ago. Like invest in yourself. Take a bet on yourself because you've been in this industry for a long time. Build your own thing rather than building things for other people. Important. How can people find you and how can they find Prevail Claims? Well, and get a hold of you. They can find me on Instagram. at prevail_claims. Yep. There you'll find a link to not only our website, but it has our email, has our phone number, they can contact me anytime. Perfect. And what would be something that you want to leave with our guests? What would be something important that you think would be important for you to share with our guests? For the guests? Yes. for all the homeowners, make sure that you're checking your your policy language um yearly because things change every year. Um even have a sit down with your own agent. And for contractors, yeah, like we're here to help. We're here to be an extension to your team. Um contact us about anything. Even if you want a free claim comparison, like you get a claim and like, "Hey, we feel like this isn't right. Reach out to me. I'll do a free claim comparison and send you an estimate of what it should be versus what you're getting. Perfect. All right. Well, thank you for being on today, Kirk, and keep shining light. Yeah.