Carrying a Second Generation Legacy | Abby Oxborough, Sugar Lake Lodge #081

Hey everyone, it's Karissa from Shining Light on Minnesota. I'm very excited. I have Abby from Sugar Lake Lodge. Welcome. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks so much. So, you rolled into town this morning. I did. Yeah. Nice little 700 a.m., you know, get up, watch the sunrise. Nice little drive. It was good. So, let's tell everybody a little bit about Sugar Lake Lodge and what exactly it is. Absolutely. Uh, we're a family I'm a second generational owner. Um, my father bought and built the property back in 93. Mhm. Um, so we're on the shores of one of the clearest lakes in Minnesota, which is very much our our claim to fame. Um, but we have, you know, 108ish rooms on property. Um, they range everything from, you know, lakeside cabins to all that good stuff. And, uh, golf course units. We've got a golf course. We've got, uh, a big banquet space. We do a lot of leadership development. We do a lot of association um meetings and we have a really great restaurant and yeah it's a it's a stunning place. It's been my home I mean since I was 6 years old so I yeah I very much grew up in that hospitality space. So So when you grew up there it's one of those things that it's like it's just in your blood. It is. Yeah. My so my dad is actually um part of the Ruter family. So Ruters Bay Lake um was my uncle and my greatgrandfather that started it and then so our the Ruter family comes out of Germany. Everything has been a part of um hospitality since day one. So yeah, it's like it's so much in my blood and um Sugar Lake is Sugar Lake Lodge is so especially wonderful. It's just it's a it's not like any other resort. were very specific um very intentional and I think that's why coming back to it was so easy because it felt it has always felt like home right and you guys do team building there you have some things you do in the winter time as well yeah we so we've established uh recently what we call the leadership lodge and it's our very much our leadership development focus piece of our business we've been doing it for since the very beginning we've had leadership uh programs community programs that have come through organizations that do you know their off-site retreats year after year. Um, but the big thing that we're finding now is these customizable, you know, leadership development, team development, team building, all of that is really active where we're at because we're we're very accustomed to, you know, creating programs that work for them specifically. So, yeah, it's become a huge piece of what we're doing. And not to mention, when people go there, they want just a vacation sometimes, too, or they need that break. They need a brain break. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] I think everybody needs a brain break. I know. I do. I do, too. Can we do that later? That' be great. Get the sun out and we'll just go golfing. Forget it. 100%. [laughter] Yep. That's why I came. I was like, let's let's go golfing. We've got a simulator. We'll just do this stuff later. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. So, you've done all that. How did you go from getting away and coming back into it? So, you know, I right after college, I went straight into marketing. I was into the corporate cog. Yep. um started to work my way up and just really discovered that I was so wildly unhappy. The burnout was insane, right? Um so like any good millennial, I quit my job and moved to Thailand. Felt like the best option at the moment. Um so I spent you know six seven years traveling experiencing an incredible amount of new cities, new countries and the theme that just kept coming up um I worked a lot in um online magazines and I did a lot of you know I helped teams kind of organize what they were doing and their next steps and this kind of you know connection between hospitality of experiencing all these new places and new hotels and restaurants and then this team building aspect was like I I couldn't get it out of my brain that I think Sugar Lake was was where we needed to go to to really bring that to life. So I came back, got my masters in uh experiential education focusing on communication and leadership development and then started partnering with you know some really great facilitators and organizations that taught a lot of uh strategic planning and you know very very focused on team building and that just I mean it just all kind of came together and it made a lot of sense because our our location is so conducive to that and so we've kind of doubled down on And it's been really fun cuz there aren't a lot of places that have that especially where you guys are. When you go up there, it's either just a resort or it's you're going to go up there just for vacation. It's not the whole team building. We're going to go up there and incorporate everything into one. Exactly. And I think like like you said, the biggest difference is, you know, when groups are getting together and they're going to an offsite, if they're, you know, focusing on that spa piece of it, I mean, that's at that point, right? Absolutely. So for us to be able to offer you know team building programming that we've designed that's very specific to outcomes. Um we partner with different facilitators. Some you know some organizations have their own internal facilitators and it's so lovely to get to interact with people like that because they understand what the value is of being together in an off-site space. The outcomes are the are the priority and you know they're all together. They're eating dinner. They're, you know, we end every evening at the bonfire and it's just it's a really great way for them to actually connect and then bring those those value added outcomes back to the office. How has your traveling I mean you've done a lot of traveling, you've done a lot of hospitality. How has that kind of came full circle for you in that world? Obviously. I mean [laughter] it honestly feels like that's my whole life like forever. No matter where I go, it's like this instinct to take notes and say, "Okay, I really liked what they did. didn't it really amount of effort that people put into places like hotels and restaurants of course is such a labor of love and I I find so much respect for people that really do that really well and it's never you know it's not like it wasn't exclusively the five-star you know way over the top places it was always the mom and pop you know smaller well that's what people kind of go for to like, hey, I'm going to go in that back alley and I want to find that mom and pop. That's where you get the best pad tie. Like, hands down. Yeah. Um, the familyowned everything. I think, you know, my husband and I are so uh just laser focused on finding those because for for me, the experience is right. That's the whole piece of it. Um, getting to know the people that built it and put their actual sweat equity into what they're providing. And that's that's my biggest pride in what we offer is that we're we're out and about and we're chatting with people. And I I can't imagine, you know, doing anything different because it's so it's just enriching to interact with people and that, you know, traveling like for sure gave me that spark. Well, there's a lot of different things when you travel, too. There's so many different cultures and finding out who wants to actually sit down and have those meals together and who who wants to just get things on the go and do it. And when you learn that going abroad, bringing that back to your culture, saying, "Hey, you know, these people really want to sit down and break bread together." Yes. You know. Yeah. Like what a cool way to get to know each other and, you know, you're sitting with the owners and just talk and shop. And I think Yeah. The more we found those people and the more that, you know, we connected with them, we brought everything back with us and saying, you know, the people that the book and the organizations that come in, we we want to have like a real relationship with them. They're not, it's not a number, you know, you're not coming in and and leaving without us knowing what your dog's name is. Like, I got to know. I [laughter] can't sleep at night if I don't know that information. If you have a dog, if not, I'm going to get you a dog's name, right? See you later. Don't even bother at that point. [laughter] What kind of food do you guys offer or what is it? Catering or is it? Yeah. Yeah, we do all in-house. Our uh our head chef, her name is Heidi. She is unbelievable. Um, we actually just recently had a popup event. We called it Saturday Night Steakhouse. And I had a few people tell me it was the best meal they've ever had in their life. So, the steak is good. I know that for sure. Um, we're also well known for something called the chicken chipotle sandwich. Um, I trademarked it on I went to Google and asked how to do that and I figured it out. There you go. Um, and so, uh, we have a restaurant that is open, you know, in the summertime from Memorial Day to Labor Day. And, uh, very, you know, kind of pub vibes, but lake view. It's beautiful. Um, all the beer and wine you could think of, but sandwiches, burgers, all that good stuff. But our catering, you know, specifically for groups is a little bit higher end. We do everything. We specialize in walleye. Um, we've got really this really incredible pot roast that my husband like quite literally cannot get enough of. It's in my freezer consistently. He [laughter] just brings it home and which is just easy. Then hey, he do that. I'm on the go. You just get it and do it. You eat it for breakfast. It's not my problem. [laughter] Yeah. So, it's that is one of the things that we we get the most compliments about because our our head chef is incredible. She's just she's very dedicated and um food is a huge piece of it. I for one I love food. I do. And if it's not well that sets the whole pace for everybody memory definitely. How many people do you think that you've seen from when you were young bring their families in now too? A lot. It's a whole It's a whole culture. Yeah. It's funny you say that. I There's a family that um used to come they had a their son was similar age to me right at growing up. And I remember so vividly he had a skateboard. It was like such a cool thing. Oh yeah. Absolutely. up the whole half ramps and the ramps and half like really wide pants or whatever. Um but his family, they actually just inquired recently. Um they're back in Minnesota and so they're coming, but they've had family friends that have been coming cuz they suggested it. So it's it's like watching your friends grow up with you. And I I was talking to someone recently about how my favorite memory of the resort is every summer when the families would come back, of course, but the staff was consistently repeating. So they it was high school and college kids that would always come back and they were like my brothers and sisters growing up because I was running around harassing them as a cuz I was, you know, a small child thinking I was really [laughter] funny and I'm sure they loved that. But it was so [laughter] right. Why is why is this girl never not in the housekeeping area? So, yeah, it is really it's really really rewarding to see those people come back and then their kids come back and now our kids are playing with their kids and Yeah, it's really fun. It's the memories made and so many people remember those summers of going to the lake and going doing those things and the resorts and whatever that may be. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Such core memories for for them and for me. So, it's just so fun to have those connections and even when we see him outside of the resort too, it's it's like we pick up right where we left off every time. Who have been some of your biggest biggest mentors that have helped you to get to where you are today, do you think? Great question. Um, so my dad is quite possibly one of just the most incredible leaders I've ever known. not just because he's my dad, but um in building this business, he's so incredibly patient. Um he just has a vision and is very good about, you know, sticking to it, but including other people in his, you know, in his dreams and what they look like. And he has always been, you know, such a a support for everybody that's come through here. And I think the thing I admire most about him, um, just as I'm getting into this, because generational transitions can be really interesting. Oh, yeah. Um, I mean, there's a big gap. Yeah. We've had a few back and forth of where we don't quite see eye to eye, but I I think I learn something new every time we have a conversation, whether it's, you know, about the financial piece of it or about, you know, what what our priorities are for updating and editing and just adjusting things. But um he does this thing so consistently where even with you know people coming at him and asking questions and demanding things he is so perpetually human first focused. It's which is amazing. It's amazing. Yeah. And just to be able to like really have that faith in people and just no matter the situation, he really assumes the best or is constantly asking, you know, if if this person's not in the right space, then what is going on with them that we can like put ourselves in wholeheartedly and help them figure that out? Yeah. I I think that's been probably one of the biggest lessons that I've learned in this process is that I can get really, you know, frustrated when things aren't going the right way or I'm trying to build something or I'm trying to make something more efficient and, you know, somebody's not reacting or responding the way that I I expect and I have to consider like you got to sit there and be like, "Okay, what would Fred do in this situation? What would he do sitting in my shoulder like smoking a cigar in his car?" Like I don't know, you know? So, yeah, it's it's interesting just to see um how he would handle situations. And so, I think that's the one that really comes to mind right now because he's so he's so active in everything that we do. And I don't think he'll ever retire, but that's totally okay. Well, and you don't want him to because if they retire, then they lose it. It's some one of those things like when you don't use it, you're going to lose it. So, you got to keep going somewhat somehow and keep him busy. Absolutely. Otherwise, he's sending emails at 3:00 a.m. that make absolutely no sense. So yeah, we got to keep him busy. What do you think have been some of the obstacles? I know you were talking about like obviously the transition from generation to generation or do you think it's been something else? Um yeah, I think it's a little bit of that. It's it's such an interesting dynamic because my husband kind of was thrown into this, right? Like he's a part of you he does all of the reservations. He's very active in the organization. Um, but to have to work and live together and raise kids together, I think that's the challenge right now in in [clears throat] my life that I find. So, there's no shutting it off. No. No. And and work life balances works here. Yeah. Like we're trying to figure out how to um interact with each other both at work and then at home. And it's like, am I your boss or am I not your boss? We're not really and nobody else is really sure of that. So, at some point we'll clarify it, but you know, we're in it together. So, I think that's an interesting dynamic for him, too, to come, you know, just jump into this family business and um just be as open and honest as he is. And he's got he's great about it. He's got like such good ideas. Um 100 million ideas of course, but it's I think that's been the most interesting tricky piece. And then there's also this um interesting dynamic when you come into an organization and you're significantly younger than a lot of the people that have been working there for a long time. Y um and I think at the beginning they don't take you serious. No. And and also I'm coming from the family business, right? So I'm kind of grandfathered into this. Oh, sure. She's going to get it. She's somebody Fred's daughter. Um but I think I proved myself right away. Like I mean I I worked there as much as I possibly could when I was younger or when I wanted to. But And you saw the whole transition and the process growing up too. Like Exactly. It wasn't brand new. Yeah. It's easier having you do it than somebody fresh out of California coming in or someone else outside coming in. I think I had that to my benefit. Um I was very aware of you know the intricacies of saying I'm here to help with this and you know I have these ideas and I had to be really patient with you know implementing things. because change is really hard for people and I you know as a facilitator myself like I understand when organizations struggle with trying to un to figure that out and really like pull from those generational dynamics. So that was like such a great frontline experience for me to be able to like both work with different organizations and then work within our own in saying you know when change is hard you know we're it's more of the communication of it. This is why we're doing this. This is what this is going to look like. It's not going to happen overnight. No. Um but I it was a a big test in patience. Yeah. Well, you have to change. I mean, change is inevitable. If you don't change, then you're not growing, right? Totally. Absolutely. And the other side of it, though, too, you are his daughter and you know how he's done it all his life. So, that's the other side, like, okay, this is how this is how he does it. I know how he is. And you still have that in you. I'm so glad you said that because truly I when I'm making decisions I'm thinking I know this might sound weird but I I know what he would say in this instance and it's just like that it is it's that he's on my shoulder tripping. Yeah. Yeah. So it's like it's always the nobody knows it better. I love that you said that. Yeah. So I mean it's it's a perfect scenario of this is what he would say but this is also me and I have to do it and make it on my own too. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. putting putting my own spin on things and and also doing it with the integrity and keeping you know the spirit alive but you know having been a part of it um I started doing their you know I helped build the build the first website in college for the resort and I was part of the marketing you know all through my 20s and so it like you said it I I've seen it grow and I've seen it get to a point where it you know it wasn't doing so great way back in the day um so I felt like I had experienced those highs and lows um so it It was a little bit easier to say, I you know, I understand what you guys have been through. It's a little fish in a big sea. There's a lot of them out there. There's a lot of resorts in the area. How can we stand out and differentiate too? Yeah. Let's be different. And and also ourselves. I think being so authentic has been it has very much worked to our benefit. And I'm so so proud of that cuz I don't quite literally don't know how to do any other the dog's name before you leave. [laughter] Exactly. Right. Right. I need to get the personal details. It's so very important. Well, I mean, it's good to have that that intentional touch, too. I mean, not a lot of places like when you go to stay somewhere, whether it's Ruckers or the Wilds or whatever it may be, you're just another number, you go in and out, and it's which is really hard. Yeah. I I find that just something that I I don't ever want to I don't want to feel that way. I don't want to make other people feel that way. You want to feel at home. Yeah. Yeah. somebody that was at um we had a a leadership event a couple weeks ago, but um they were saying every time they come, it feels like they're at their best friend's house, right? Like you come back, everybody remembers you. Um there's always, you know, we remember what your drink order is. Like that kind of thing cuz it's it's the same bartenders. It's the same person. The same people. Yeah. And you know the crew like if you come back summer after summer, it's going to be the same or somewhat of the same. Yeah. It's such a nostalgic feeling. I love that. I love being able to provide that. I think that's one of the best the best feelings in doing this job. What do you think some of your biggest wins have been? Ooh. Um I would say we have put so much effort into our property. Um everything we make goes back into what you know all of the updates, all of the upgrades. This is a really random one that just came to mind, but we just bought new beds. Amazing. um new headboards, but like the the sleep is so great, which is good and you need that. It's incredible how much of a difference that makes and people are way happier too, right, when they sleep that way. Um but we have successfully built what is the leadership lodge. We have organiza organizations coming back um and coming for the first time that are really taking what they're learning and putting it into action. And I think seeing seeing them flourish is such a great example of us knowing that we are doing the right thing. Um that's so rewarding to see them, you know, growing and actually coming back and saying this was this worked really great. Now we want to work on this. So it's this like multi-layer. It's so dimensional in seeing um groups come back year after year. Um I also I'm really proud of our staff. Mh. Um the most wonderful people on the planet. They are a lot of them have been here for year after year. Um but they all get along. We do a really good job of you know communicating with each other. They I mean they encourage me to communicate more. There are times that I don't tell them what they should know. But but you don't want to micromanage either. Yeah. Yep. You want them to figure it out on their own. Exactly. I got to give them autonomy. Um, but it's it's such a like a encouraging environment. I think everybody is there for the right reasons and you know we haven't had a lot of turnover and I think that's because it's I mean it's back to what it's human first and they you know the resources are there and if they're not we figure out how to get them and I I think every single day is just really focused on are they doing as well as they can because of what what we've provided and what else can we do so I think that to me is probably the biggest win is really having people that are happy doing what they're doing. Well, and it's putting people first and having that personal touch. Definitely because I think generations nowadays are losing that. They're losing the communication. They're losing all of that. Like, let's go out and have a comm let's have a conversation instead of hey, let's just jump on our phones and Right. Yeah. The face to face is so important. Yeah. And it it changes it completely changes dynamics too. the ability to, you know, actually like see your your body language and um be able to, you know, just ruminate and hash out stuff that's going on. And I think that's that's part of the reason why when groups come up and they're together on their own. They there's never a time that they're away from all of their notifications and that kind of thing. So we, you know, as our organization, we try to do the same thing to at least be together and be present and understand that, you know, when you're together, you're actually you're together. Yeah. You're together. Yeah. You're figuring things out. There's eye contact. [laughter] It happens. What's eye contact, right? You mean I actually have to talk to somebody and not just shoot a quick text. I'm going to read my watch while you're talking. Yeah. I'm not going to give you an emoji. I'm just going to give you an acronym. We're good. [laughter] Yeah. Just a straight thumbs up. We're good. I love it. Oh yeah. No, it's a lot of fun. So I mean people focus a lot on all the negative negativity that's happening in the world and there's not enough positive things that have happened and I mean it's great that you have pointed out a lot of your positive things that have gone on. I mean from your staff to everything going on. What have I mean you've talked about your staff, you've talked about, you know, the way things are going. What do you see in the future? Yeah. Um I'm super optimistic about the future right now. Um, and I think partly because I have to be, like you said, there's so much going on in the world. There are days that it's really hard to be like, I don't know if anybody really cares what we're doing. Like, you know, there's just So, you have to be the light. It's like, okay, let's just one day at a time and let's figure it out. That's exactly it. I think I I was thinking about this from a a social media standpoint, right, where the the tendency to run down that rabbit hole in terms of political unrest. And I mean, Minnesota, of course, there's just it's constant. And every time I get into that headspace of I'm not sure that anybody can even handle anything else on their feed, I I come back to if if I [snorts] do have the opportunity to be some sort of a light. Yeah. So, um to me, you know, the future is it's just we're we're all in. I I love the idea of being so confident and excited about what we're doing because we're we're good at it and we know that we like it and we have a lot of fun doing it, which is amazing. We, you know, in the winter time is it's a lot of times it's when groups buy us out, you know, on their own. So, they're up there in an exclusive way. Um, and we've been getting them outside and doing things like cold plunges in the lake and the sauna and you know the the very Minnesota all the Minnesota stuff. Yes. Um, but just I think one of the most powerful things when they're just standing around a bonfire and it's crystal clear. It's silent. It's just such a cool way to kind of showcase what that place is really all about. It's not big. It's not overwhelming. Small one in the big world kind of. Yeah. Yeah. And it's it's really like humanizing to say, "Okay, there's so much going on, but right now I feel like I'm in a really good spot and that, you know, I can control this environment." Um, and being able to provide that is just really that's really encouraging to me. And I I just seem so much value um of people getting together in that connection. And like I said, like I think the fun piece is so critical. There's just there's so much opportunity for us to find joy in working together and putting effort into, you know, your skills at work or the, you know, the vacations that you're taking with your family and, you know, playing cards and the whole the little things. Cuz sometimes the little things are the big things. People remember the memories, right? They don't remember, hey, I got a new phone or I got, you know, a new set of golf clubs or I got this for Christmas. It's, hey, I remember going up to the cabin or I remember going to the resort or remember that team building thing we did that was a lot of fun because we learned how to set the processes in place so we can do that at the next location. Yeah, we had time around, you know, in the lobby that we were just, you know, chitchatting about something silly at in our socks at midnight. Like it's just it's yeah it's totally those kind of offthe cuff moments that I think are to me that is what the essentially what the future needs for all of us is to to have that opportunity down and get out and go go do something together. Right. Put my phone in the lake at this phone. I don't want it. Yeah. You can have it. I'm over it. So I mean we were talking a little you brought up the social media thing a little bit and I think social media a lot of times is people comparing themselves to one another. Totally. And if people use it or utilize it as a tool, like, hey, I'm going to go out there and be original and just do what I do and make the post or do what you would do and shine a light and just be done or like, hey, this is where I'm at. This is what I'm doing. And just put it down, that's great. But if you're out there comparing yourself to another business or comparing yourself to another resort or not trying to be original and just saying, "Hey, I'm going to do this, but I'm going to do one step better." Yeah. Then it's defeating. Why? What's the point? You know, yeah. How are we helping each other? Right. I I love that you said that too because um like my point of view someone asked me recently like who's your biggest competitor and I and not in like a egotistical way. I was like I couldn't even tell you like the the other resorts do so many cool things that they are experts in, right? And I love, you know, what they offer and but I I really hope that they see that in us that we're all in this in this piece and there's so it's going to work for some and it's not. So like the ability to have those options like how fortunate are all of us to be able to pick and choose especially from northern Minnesota is stunning. It is. I mean from the clear skies to the water to so many amenities to things that you can do and there's enough people to go up there on vacation that there's enough places to go right. Yeah. Comparison is really hard and especially you know in a in an industry like that because it's you know trying to keep up essentially that's that's going to be the downfall and there's just it's not worth you know if one person does something adding another golf course is it adding a ski hill? Is it adding you know dog sled races? is that doing this just keeping up with the Jones is adding one more bigger better thing than Right. Yeah. than what is it? Then we're all going to be the same. Right. Right. And I Yeah. I can't I can't fathom having to do that and and be that that cookie cutter. That sounds terrible. Or is it I'm going to go somewhere. I'm going to make those memories and have someone remember me. you know, having someone remember who we are as a group or having someone go and, you know, just having those processes set and, you know, sitting around the campfire every single time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The personalization is huge. Definitely. I I seek that out myself in places that we go. Absolutely. There's where you're familiar with them and they're familiar with you. Definitely. Yeah. It's like coming home and and being able to have, you know, someone that really cares for you. I think that's like such a unique thing to have right now is is really be seen. And that's one of the reasons I mean I tell people more times than not why I do the podcast because you start people start knowing you and you it's like I don't remember who you are. I don't know you because I'm in front of so many people. You want to be intentional. You want to get to know someone on a deeper level and say hey how are the kids? How's the dog? You know how was that doctor's appointment you had or something important because I want to care. I do care and I am a person. I don't want to just be like looking for a logo on a shirt and trying to figure out who they are because you see so many people, you know. Have you heard of Bnee Brown's marble jar theory? Yeah. So, we were just talking about this recently. It keeps coming back up, but I what you just said makes me think of it um in a sense in like a socialization, right? Maybe tell our viewers what it is in case they Yeah. So, Bnee Brown talks and she talks to leadership about this a lot that you, you know, trust comes from smaller moments. So if you have a a jar of marbles for a certain person, every marble in there represents a time that they were reliable or you know they brought to mind something that you know if I had told you my mom's name before we walked in and you know we're talking talking and you just dropped it that would be a marble because you you actually listened to understand or to comprehend what I was saying as opposed to you know listening just to respond. And so once that jar is full, um that is someone that's in your circle that you can definitely trust. And and there's ways to lose the marbles too, like um you know, not responding to a text message or you know, there's all there's things that kind of make you step back and say, "Oh, I don't know if this person wants to be, you know, part of my circle or not." But Well, you have to keep the circle small, too. I mean, that's that's the other side of it, too. Yes. Exactly. And being able to Yeah. to to really pinpoint who it is that you can find in your small circle um and keep them and and really keep that jar as full as possible. I love that because like that personalization um can get really lost like with the social media thing. It's so easy to, you know, say, "Oh yeah, I see what's going on in your life." But or people think they know you because they see you somewhere or see you on there and they're like, "Hey, Karissa, how are the kids?" I'm like, "I don't I don't know you. You saw me on LinkedIn and you know you know where I work. Like I don't I don't know. You do not have a connection. [laughter] Maybe 5,000 friends on there or whatever. Maybe. But no. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That Yeah. That ability to like really zone in on someone and and make them feel and just understand that they're cared for. I that's such a an important piece to I I mean life of course, but especially a business like what we're doing. It's just it's a an an opportunity to make people people feel cared for, right? Yeah. What do you do outside of work? O um I have two kids that are one's four and a half, one's one and a half. So the busy agent takes a lot of my time. Um but we're big on travel. Um we just went to Japan for our 10 year anniversary and I will say it was the uh number one country we've been to. We've been to a lot and because we used to travel consistently but it was Did you Was it just you and your husband? Did you bring the kids to our kids? You have to have some alone time. I one-year-old, [laughter] you're not coming on a 12-h hour flight with us. Um, so yeah, that's a huge piece of it. We're big outdoor people. Um, we bought a rooftop tent for uh the truck that we have and tried to bring our one-year-old for his birthday and he scream cried in the campground. Um, so we had to leave at like 4:00 a.m. So, we're going to try again this year and see how that goes. But perfect. Yeah. All the I we love being outside, love being on the lake. Um, golf is a huge part of our liv for a while, so I get it. just the clear blue water and the outside world and we we ski um and we've been doing out in Montana and Big Sky and I Yeah, anything to be out in that area. Mountains. I don't know why I didn't decide to live in the mountains. Stunning. Glacier and Yeah, that's my Yep. It's amazing. Oh, I love it. Yeah. So, all out Yeah. All outdoors. Um like I said, food is like my I think it's like my number one love language. I just I have a there's a sales and marketing person that I have that makes uh really good sourdough, but she hasn't brought me any recently. It's kind of wild. She's going to be listening now, so I hope [laughter] I hope she knows. Or they're going to let her know. Yeah, we're going to call her and say, "Hey, uh I'll be home. My four-year-old's low on sourdough. Where is it?" [laughter] By the way, I'll be home in Yep. How many hours? Yeah. Here's my address in case you forgot. [laughter] You'll be having it sit at your doorstep. I love it. Do you have girls or boys or both? Two boys. Two boys. Yeah. Well, that'll be fun when they get older, too. Yep. Yeah. They're they're a lot, but they're so fun. Parenthood is wild. It is. And it's going to get more wild. Yeah. I've just learned like so much about myself in the past 5 years. You don't know what love is until you have children. Like really, like you you get selfish when before you have them and you're like, "Oh, I know what this is." And then it's like, "Wow." I remember when I was going down on a skateboard down the hill by yourself and [laughter] we're good. was happening. Yep. When I was first pregnant, I I remember just being so sad about losing all of my alone time. Like it was really hard to reconcile that I was fingers on your door when you're trying to shower and [laughter] like I was like I am like an introvert at heart if I want to be, right? And I prefer it that way. And now it's like okay, everybody's in on everything. We're you know, you guys know you're a part of everything I do. And but you're right. it. I did not know that I could be that caring. Right. I had kids. [laughter] And then it's going to get crazy and you're going to be off to school and Yeah. I know. They're wonderful. Yeah. It's a lot. What do you think your favorite time with your kids has been so far? Oo, I love that question. So, recently, um, a few friend a friend a friend of mine has kids that are similar age. Yeah. Um and so last summer, two summers ago, we started doing swimming at we have a pool that overlooks the lake. Um we did a pool and a lake time every Wednesday just to get our kids like you comfortable with the water and you know get them together. We want them to like somewhat know each other and um I think seeing both of my kids fall in love with the lake over the pooling has been like one it's a huge point of pride, right? I wouldn't find the excitement, you know, things rocks and um they would rather do that than anything else. And I I think that was that's been one of my best memories is every Wednesday we're down we're there until the sun goes down and we're interacting with this is what we're doing. Yeah, it's like our own little It's our own little space and it's hard to take time off in the summer, of course, they're so busy, but with them. Okay, so the other piece of this, too, is that they're growing up the way I did. And I think that's like why I find it so keeping that memory going forward. It's so special that they they see the staff the way I did and um they love the the property. And our oldest, his name's Rody, and he calls he calls it the Sugar Lake Lodge, right? So, okay, you're picking me up and we're going to the Sugar Lake Lodge. Yes. Yes, of course. And you know, he gets his his uncrustable sandwich and from the chef and we sit on the beach and it's just perfect set the way they were just like yours were. Yeah. Yeah, that has been my Yeah, for sure my favorite so far. How like is there anything that he has tried or do you think that he's setting different memories than you are or do you think there's I mean he's [snorts] a he's obviously a boy and doing things different but Yeah. Yeah, I think uh experiencing a working very busy working mom is really interesting already, right? Um you know, my mom was always busy doing other things and she worked too. They both both her and my dad were very involved in the resort, but she was around much more than he was. So, it's like that opposite dynamic, right? So, he's he's seeing how much effort I'm putting in and that leadership that I have. And I I love that he's seeing that firsthand. So, I think he's you know, mom's doing it. I can do it, too. He's noticing that, you know, women are in leadership positions and they're making decisions. And I think that's to me that's a really a huge point of pride for him to say, "Oh, yeah. It totally makes sense." Like there's there must have been a woman president by this point. There can be someone at this point or I can I can do it and so can everybody else. Exactly. Yeah. Mom can do it. I can do it. Yep. We're good. So, I think that's Yeah, I think that's a huge um thing that he's he's already witnessing and he's very he's wicked smart. So, I'm sure he he is seeing a lot more than I even know. So, and I'm sure he's going to be jumping in places and doing all sorts of things out there and trying trying everything. He's getting to that age. Well, they both are. Both of them. One's going in the mouth and the other Exactly. The other one's like kicking stuff off the dock and Yeah. Putting them all in his mouth. Lighting stuff on fire. So, that's what boys do. There's a lit tennis ball going down the [laughter] down the road. We're good. For sure. I did that at some point when we lived there. There must have been a time. Do you have a favorite quote or anything that you remember or anything that any favorite books or anything that stick in your mind? Um, actually I just finished a new book by Brad Stellberg. So, um, he he has written for the New York Times. Um, and he he writes multiple books focused a little bit more on sports theory. And um, I'm like blanking on the name right now, but uh, he just posted this um, like piece of quote from his book about the importance of finding joy and fun and working hard and making them work together. Yeah. Living your passions and putting them together. Yeah. Yeah. And he also like a piece of it, it was like the second part of it um and that was in the second half of the book was that it's actually really cool to care about things. And I think for so long there's this like this hesitation to say I'm really passionate about this or because when you put yourself out there it's so um it's scary. It's gullible. I mean, it's and people judge it and they're like, "Hey, I'm going to critique everything that you're doing and I'm going to or I'm smarter than you." And, you know, that imposttor syndrome comes up. Um, but I love what, you know, he just preaches the all-in mentality of, you know, really, really caring and not being nonchalant about things. And I think that describes me really well. Um, authentic. I don't think I've ever been nonchalant. I think I'm quite Yeah, I'm definitely the opposite. But um being able to really focus in on things and work hard and also have fun while doing it um is like I'd like mismatch that quote. But that's the idea. That's the idea behind it. Yeah. It just that makes so much sense to me and I I hope that I can continue to like live in that that it's cuz I it just feels so right to be, you know, hyperfocused and excited about things and telling people, you know, and that you're not burnt out doing it because you have your passions from the outside. You've got the golf, you've got the food, you've got everything in one that you want. You've got your family there. Yep. And more more and more you can bring other things into it too with marketing and everything. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's just it's fun to build on and and be really I think when you show that you're proud of something and like the things that you're doing with your staff too. Yeah. And and other people start to say, "Oh, yeah. I am actually really proud of this other thing that I did or this hard thing that I worked on um without, you know, feeling like you're gloating or that you're in people's faces. Like people want to celebrate you." And I that's a hard lesson to learn, especially Midwest as Midwesterners. We're like, "No, I did good. I'm hide here. Like write a letter to someone and tell them. So yeah, I'm going to write this down on paper and hide it in my desk and just slide it over. [laughter] Circle yes or no, please. Put it in my journal. Did you hate it? Just let me know. Yep. [laughter] Yeah. Super fun. So, you have a lot of stuff planned. Do you have any more trips planned at all? Not at the moment. No, we're going to be um full on summer mode. Yeah. Full on summer mode. We're Yeah, we're in it now. So, we're Everything's getting ready and it's supposed to be nice this weekend. Yeah. Yep. We've got a big group in this weekend and then April is kind of our time to do a lot of uh maintenance and upgrade stuff that we plan to do and then yeah, I mean we'll be putting in the docks before you know it. So, what exciting stuff do you have coming up this summer? Anything good? Yes, we've got we're doing a big focus on updating a lot of our golf course, which you're going to love. Can't wait for you to come I will golf it and give me pointers. But, um, we've got, you know, our restaurant is getting a decent amount of upgrades to it. Our rooms, um, all that good stuff. We're Well, the new beds is just enough for anybody, right? You just need a good night's sleep, right? Absolutely. Or being outside sleeping it with the stars. One way or another, you'll [laughter] be fine. Um, but we've got, you know, we've got some really great people coming up and, uh, running really cool workshops that are, you know, very intentional and and a lot of good topics. And, um, Memorial Day is always fun because we get to kick off the season and open the restaurant and, um, yeah, it's going to be I mean, it's going to be great. We're just we're almost full for the summer and the fall's looking good, too. What have been some of your favorite topics that have come in that have gone through? Um so we actually we just did a workshop recently about the power of um really believing in your staff. Um what you believe is what they become is what we called it. Y um which I don't know if you're familiar with the pyon effect but if I've heard of it but I'm not. It's used in uh like the USA hockey team is a really good example. the men's, they, you know, for years have used this uh coaching method in pushing this positive belief in your players, right? And and it goes down to youth sports, of course, that's a huge piece of it from a psychology standpoint, but um when you've got up and cominging leaders in your organization and you're really focusing on the things that they're good at and you're telling them, you know, outright, you I really believe that you would be good in this position or I believe, you know, you've got a you are really great listener. is your lane. Yeah. They they take that so much so that they start to believe in it. And it goes the other way, too. If you're if you're consistently negative with someone, I mean, imagine, you know, this having a big family, if someone's negative with you or pushing the things that they think that you're not good at, like think about your time in school. I had my teachers been like, you are actually you're not terrible at math. If you can apply it in an, you know, an accounting school, it's how you're taught or what they tell you. It's the way you're directed. you just I for years was like I'm just not good at math, but like I am when it's when it's something you want to learn. It's all what you want to learn. I don't care about calculus, but I definitely care about payroll and like balancing that kind of thing. I mean, that's when it tracked. Well, it's like college, the courses that you don't have to take that are not going towards your degree, right? Like, hey, I'm going to be going for a nursing degree, but why do I have to take, you know, this extra class over here that has nothing to do with it? Yeah. Like, wait, what? Why? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. micro macro econ, but I'm going for, you know, whatever this is. I have an ongoing nightmare that I just like never finished my macroeconomics final. Like, I just [laughter] it sits in my in my the back of my mind. Oh my gosh, I I got to go back and finish it. Sorry to bring that up. Yeah, like my [laughter] PTSD. Is it showing? Yeah, I just knew that. Oh man. Oh boy. Um, so yeah, so that was a one of the most recent workshops and it was a really powerful uh couple of hours cuz the I mean the conversations that were coming from it were really incredible. Everybody's got that experience and and trying to understand how you're you know interacting with some of your superiors or you know the staff that you have and you're you're trying to give feedback and find your lane that works for you. If something's not working here, maybe go try you know a different position or try something else just because it doesn't work here. Maybe you weren't built for that. Try something else. Yeah, I think like feedback is a really hard thing to give in general. And I I think unless you, you know, go about it in that human way and saying it's a hard one to take too, but sometimes you have to take it and understand, hey, this isn't quite right for me. It's not feeling right. So, let's figure that out and move on. You've learned from those the feedback, too. Yeah. And I think understanding the emotional intelligence piece of it and saying, you know, I want you to be the best that you can that that's not where you're at right now. like other pushed hard enough if you're good at one thing but I've seen you do some other things like let's expand it. Sorry you're good [laughter] like let's expand it and see what it you know what you're capable of. Um so I that was a really we have a few that have you know looked like that and kind of focused hyperfocused on that those internal communication options. Um we do a lot on boundaries and you know understanding how to communicate that kind of stuff especially in organizations. Y um I this morning um someone asked about you know how do you set that boundary like with your boss? Yes. And [laughter] it's hard for me because like one that's me but also my father to a degree but a boss that I had um when I was in a corporate world was very explicit about you know upfront communication and I think what I really learned from her was if I set the expectation right away y um there was no room for gray area. So if she asked me to do something, she would say, you know, I know you had mentioned that you're much more comfortable with this. This is out of your scope. And she would be just see a little bit Yeah. a little bit more caring about it as opposed to if she didn't know that, she'd be like, "Do this." Yeah. Instead of telling learn graphic design, I'm like, "Excuse me, telling them explain it to them." Yeah. Which then feels it's so hard not to feel that as like a if they do it the other way, you're like, "Are are they attacking me? Is this like is this a test?" like your brain just goes into this fight or flight of like I don't know I think I'm getting fired like the ability to yeah kind of have those conversations and the beauty of what we do is with this experiential uh momentum and like the the landscape is you're in a scenario in the moment so that when you're actually back at work you can it's like muscle memory back engineering kind of too at the same you come back and you're like oh It's just like when we were trying to build that whatever, you know, out in the lake and it feels like how this person, you know, instructed me and it wasn't their role. And then so like you're pulling the pieces together and you're so much more equipped to handle those problems. Um, so that's those are the kinds of, you know, workshop powerhouse things that that we're providing. And I it makes me laugh cuz sometimes I feel like I'm getting the most out of it where I'm I'm in the room and I'm like, this is really valuable. Yeah. Well, I think a lot of times too with people and all the negative um reviews that are out there, you need to focus on the positive ones. Okay, here's, you know, really great feedback from my boss or from somebody else. Let's work on what I did right. Yes. Instead of what I did wrong and let's really work on that so I can keep doing that and build off of that, you know, or hey, we got a great Google review. Let's hone in on that and see how we can replicate that and keep that moving forward in in whatever asset that may be, right? Double down on the good. Yeah. It's a lot of times it's not even worth if I love the review. Oh man, I could go on for days about that stuff. But um a lot of times the mindset that people are in for things like that, like I have one negative review and I've got 6,000 positives. Let's take the 6,000 positives and make that 12,000. and the scenarios that like the people are in for negative versus positive is you never know and there's never there's never a chance to like two side that situation right like I would love for everyone to know my side of that story but there's there's three sides what's one thought with the other thought and then what's right you know it is what it is it is it's yeah and that's such a tough spot and um something like that resiliency is a actually a huge um program piece that we we talk about and the ability to see that kind of feedback or see things that really failed and instead of you know digging our head in the sand what are we doing to do differently or you know what can we learn from it yeah which is you know in theory a great mindset but if you don't have the tools to get there it's it's really impossible to or the team behind you that really want to learn it either huge yep definitely well perfect how can people find you or where is Sugar Lake Lodge we didn't even get to that not leave at that. [laughter] Um, so we are located right outside of Grand Rapids. We're about 2 and a half hours north of uh the cities. Yeah. Um, we're actually we're in a township called Cohasset, but if you go for Grand Rapids, you you can't miss us. Um, we're online everywhere. Instagram, Facebook, everything. Sugarlake Lodge. Um, the leadership lodge as well. Um, but yeah, our website sugarlake lodge.com. Um, yeah, we've got got it all. And we we actually don't take online reservations. So that's a fun little note about us. So you have to call and you have to talk to us. We will do text message for the people have to actually pick up the phone and call. I know Jenzie told me that I had to have text messaging involved. They're so demanding. I love them. Right. Um I know pretty soon with AI the chat bots will be there. Never will never go down that road. I would [laughter] die before. Right. Scary. Awesome. Well, we appreciate having you on today. I can't wait to get up there this summer soon. And we'll have to play some golf. I know. I can't wait. It'll be great. All right. Thank you. Thank you so much, Abby. Yeah, of course. See [music] you later.